GeniesLoki

so maybe this is just my own particular weirdness but I feel like having your body be viewed and depicted as an erotic object is a huge benefit/privilege? As a guy I'd love to have that happen to mine, even by default 'bodies as functional' by default *also* has consequences :(

It's good "as part of a balanced breakfast" as it were It sucks when there's /only/ caricatures/fetishes and /no/ real people (hyperbole obv) when you go looking for representations of yourself in the world I think non-whites in Europe/America get this too

In an ideal world all genders and ethnicities get a bit of everything in how they're depicted But in this context "male gaze" says when the makers of the art (and their intended audience) are primarily one demographic, you get one particular projected subset of those depictions

To continue on this branch: I agree that this is a problem, but I'd say then the problem is still not *at all* with 'male gazes'; rather, the problem is with the lack of non-male gazes criticizing male gaze is in no way equal to addressing said lack; thus I find it 100% harmful

I don't think I've ever seen someone just say "the male gaze is bad", although I've seen some ambiguous cases (where you can't really tell if someone wants less or none).

I think with a lot of this stuff there's a fairly wide gap between what people explicitly say and the overall effect that is created by what people say. A lot of men (and women!) do seem to come away a strong "Being attracted to women is intrinsically oppressive" impression.

And yeah, almost nobody would explicitly endorse that if asked about it, but they're clearly doing *something* to create that impression.

I'm also surprised that this conversation seems like "male gaze" = "men being attracted to women" I see male gaze as broader, literally "seeing the world like a man" in a film and theatre context. Stuff like the man typically being the hero.