GeniesLoki

It's pernicious. I do not know if it's possible for male feminist nerds to escape this without losing feminism (as an ideology).

I think it's possible, it's just fucking hard work because it requires you to: 1. Adopt an ideology that integrates feminism into a proper understanding of the male experience. 2. Get good at working with your emotions and dealing with clashes between explicit belief and feeling

You can't adopt an ideology that integrates (liberal) feminism into a proper uderstanding of the male experience if (liberal) feminism fundamentally misunderstands the male experience to begin with

I think you can. It requires discarding some of the wrong bits, but integrating the experiences of men into a feminism largely just requires taking feminist principles of seriously and applying them uniformly. This isn't always popular, but I think it's good.

What are those principles?

e.g. "You should listen to people's lived experiences if you want to understand them", "You're probably oblivious to problems faced by people whose identities you don't share", "Identities interact in complex ways that create their own unique problems"

This is all ideology. Men shouldn't hope to be 'finally understood' by women, or to have their 'lived experiences heard'- this is exactly the problem. If the search for masculine self-understanding takes feminism as its model, it's already based on the wrong premise

I don't really feel like relitigating this argument, sorry