GeniesLoki

...and feminists can always just lean on traditional gender norms against male emotional expression when it suits them.

My general impression is that most individual people in these spaces are actually very willing to have good conversations about this and update their beliefs. The difficulties are: a) identifying the small minority with whom it will be a train wreck b) shifting the larger group

I think rather than move the space it's probably better to essentially form parallel movements that are explicitly mixed gender from the get go, heavily SJ informed, but start from a place of open and honest curiousity about what people of all genders' experiences are like.

Various thoughts: 1. I can't quite tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my pessimism. Agreeing, perhaps, since you propose a new group.

2. It's nice that many are willing to shift their views, but cold comfort if a) hurtful people continue to run amok in the SJ movement and b) males still don't have a trustworthy support movement...

...The mere existence of people with positive views towards males doesn't help those in need. If 95% of feminists are quietly, passively pro-male and 5% are rampant abusers, the favorable ratio doesn't indicate a movement healthy for men.

3. I'm certainly curious and open to hearing more about a proposed parallel movement, it's not something I've really thought of.

It's something I've thought of but honestly founding a movement sounds exhausting so I mostly just try to move the needle with Twitter threads and other writing and kinda hope that having enough good memes out there will help.