GeniesLoki

So I think in many cases when men do express their emotions in real life, they're punished for it even by proponents of greater emotional expressiveness, partially because those proponents don't even notice what's going on. /

They don't pattern match the ugly, messy real world nature of the situation to the poetic ideal in their minds. I think SJ ideology needs to grapple harder with whether this kind of messy greater expressiveness is really worth it, and either bite the bullet or don't. /

I'm a pessimist here; there's no obvious route by which the social justice activist community would confront its anti-male bias. The idea that oppressor groups don't deserve consideration is too strong...

...and feminists can always just lean on traditional gender norms against male emotional expression when it suits them.

My general impression is that most individual people in these spaces are actually very willing to have good conversations about this and update their beliefs. The difficulties are: a) identifying the small minority with whom it will be a train wreck b) shifting the larger group

I think rather than move the space it's probably better to essentially form parallel movements that are explicitly mixed gender from the get go, heavily SJ informed, but start from a place of open and honest curiousity about what people of all genders' experiences are like.

Various thoughts: 1. I can't quite tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my pessimism. Agreeing, perhaps, since you propose a new group.

2. It's nice that many are willing to shift their views, but cold comfort if a) hurtful people continue to run amok in the SJ movement and b) males still don't have a trustworthy support movement...