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GaryMarcus's profile
Gary Marcus
Gary Marcus
Gary Marcus
@GaryMarcus

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Gary Marcus

@GaryMarcus

CEO/Founder of http://Robust.AI ; cognitive scientist, and best-selling author. New book: http://Rebooting.AI : Building Artificial Intelligence We Can Trust

garymarcus.com
Joined December 2010

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    1. Gary Marcus‏ @GaryMarcus Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @tyrell_turing @neuro_data and

      Let's be real. Current neural nets have been shown empirically to work on some problems (after tinkering to get details right) - but do we really *know* that they are an abstraction of the brain, in which their details map onto simplifications of actual brain processes? No.

      3 replies 6 retweets 55 likes
    2. Blake Richards‏ @tyrell_turing Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @GaryMarcus @neuro_data and

      I'm sorry, but this is a bad take. Yes, we know they are simplifications of real brains. 1) Neurons do something very similar to linear integration with a non-linearity. 2) They process inputs in a distributed, parallel manner. ANNs capture this basic process, period.

      5 replies 2 retweets 33 likes
    3. Blake Richards‏ @tyrell_turing Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @tyrell_turing @GaryMarcus and

      I am amazed at how many ppl resist this basic fact! Folks: you may believe ANNs miss critical biological details, cool, that's a legit position to take. But why pretend that ANNs are not an abstraction of neural processing? That is simply not a tenable position, frankly.

      15 replies 3 retweets 64 likes
    4. Gary Marcus‏ @GaryMarcus Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @tyrell_turing @neuro_data and

      started a new thread because my jaw dropped at the hubris of this remark.

      3 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    5. Blake Richards‏ @tyrell_turing Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @GaryMarcus @neuro_data and

      It's not hubris, man. You may not think ANNs are a *good* model. But, neurons are well approximated in their firing rate by a linear-non-linear model. See here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627318307372 … Given this, it is ridiculous to claim that ANNs are not an abstraction of neural processing.

      7 replies 1 retweet 22 likes
    6. Gary Marcus‏ @GaryMarcus Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @tyrell_turing @neuro_data and

      mere approximation doesn’t mean you have really captured what that component is, let alone how system as a whole works. NOBODY really understands how you get from neural nonlinearities to cognition without clear account of that, rest is straw-grasping

      3 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    7. Blake Richards‏ @tyrell_turing Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @GaryMarcus @neuro_data and

      You're trying to have a debate with me that I'm not interested in, bc I am not taking the position you think I am. I am not claiming that I can say with certainty that ANNs are a *good* model of the brain. I am claiming that they capture *some* aspects of neural processing.

      4 replies 0 retweets 20 likes
    8. Gary Marcus‏ @GaryMarcus Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @tyrell_turing @neuro_data and

      it may turn out that we are fundamentally wrong in our early 21st century thinking about the brain, and eg that most of the action is at the dendrites and that we have misunderstood what neurons (and other constituents of the brain) do. see comment re in vitro vs in vivo

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    9. KordingLab‏ @KordingLab Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @GaryMarcus @tyrell_turing and

      But I agree that we may massively underestimate the computational power of dendrites. @IlennaJ and @aha_momentum in my lab are going crazy about that idea ;)

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    10. Artem Bolshakov‏ @atbolsh Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @KordingLab @GaryMarcus and

      @GaryMarcus I think you're not understanding @tyrell_turing . I saw another post today that said "all neurology is inferior to ANN models," and THAT point of view is genuinely worth ridiculing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Gary Marcus‏ @GaryMarcus Nov 28
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @atbolsh @KordingLab and

      only thing i was ridiculing (via parallel structure) was his certainty in the face of the unknown.

      5:22 PM - 28 Nov 2019
      • 3 Likes
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      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Blake Richards‏ @tyrell_turing Nov 28
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @GaryMarcus @atbolsh and

          But my certainty is not the one which you were ridiculing. You kept trying to explain to me that ANNs might not capture the reality of the brain, and are not adequate models. But all I said was that they were an abstraction that captures some aspects of neural processing.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Gary Marcus‏ @GaryMarcus Nov 28
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @tyrell_turing @atbolsh and

          My point, again, is that we know so little about the overall nature of neural processing that is premature to say much more than X looks a little like Y that might do Z.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. 4 more replies
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        2. Artem Bolshakov‏ @atbolsh Nov 28
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @GaryMarcus @KordingLab and

          I think he was saying that ANN models might provide insight about specific brain modules / subsystems. I've seen some convincing papers specifically about cerebellum structure.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Artem Bolshakov‏ @atbolsh Nov 28
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @atbolsh @GaryMarcus and

          I don't think he was that certain; I think he was certain that we shouldn't disregard this tool, not that this tool is universal. But I can see how, to someone fed up with DL hype, what he said could strike a wrong note. My two cents. I'm out

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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