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GabeWetmore's profile
Gabe Wetmore
Gabe Wetmore
Gabe Wetmore
@GabeWetmore

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Gabe Wetmore

@GabeWetmore

Conservative pastor and patriot.

Livermore, CA
trinityeastbay.com
Joined July 2013

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    1. Michael Bull‏ @MrBully67 Oct 9
      Replying to @_Theopolis

      Excellent points but 2 Cor 5:17 does not say “participates in” but “is.” Your obsolete Abrahamic ecclesiology requires that you misrepresent the text.http://bit.ly/2AjJ82S 

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
      Replying to @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

      Their participate in Christ defines them. To be joined to Christ IS to be new creation. They participate in Jesus, who inaugurated new creation, therefore they are new creation too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Michael Bull‏ @MrBully67 Oct 9
      Replying to @GabeWetmore @_Theopolis

      Nice try. But that definition is precisely the opposite of what Paul is saying. Read the passage.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
      Replying to @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

      "If anyone is in Christ, he is new creation." In other words, if any man is in Christ he participates with Christ in his death and resurrection, therefore he is new creation. He dies to the old creation in Adam and is raised to become something new in Christ.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Michael Bull‏ @MrBully67 Oct 9
      Replying to @GabeWetmore @_Theopolis

      I agree. But PJL said “participates in” a new creation to allow for the sprinkling of babies. Sacralizing natural ties (blood, tribal, civic) is not the supernatural kingdom. That’s why Christendom 1.0 died – it conflated cause and effect. The kingdom of Christ is internal law.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
      Replying to @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

      #1 (Can't fit this in one tweet): PJL doesn't even mention paedobaptism in this thread. But you're wrong to say that the new covenant is "internal law" as a way of distinguishing it from the old...

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
      Replying to @GabeWetmore @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

      #2: Paul's, and Jesus', contention with judaism wasn't that they got the old covenant right, but failed to see the big changes in the new. Their point was that they missed the whole point of the old covenant. That's why Jesus says he doesn't need to condemn the Pharisees...

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
      Replying to @GabeWetmore @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

      #3: because there's already one who condemns them. Moses, the very one in whom they placed their hope. If they had believed Moses they would've believed him, because Moses wrote about him.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
      Replying to @GabeWetmore @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

      #4: The Old Cov. wasn't merely about external conformity to the works of the Torah. It was about faith. That's why Paul says they missed the whole point of it. They mistook the type for the antitype, and in doing so failed to understand the whole point of the type.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
      Replying to @GabeWetmore @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

      #5: So that's not a new vs. old thing. It's about a false vs. true understanding of the old covenant itself. This isn't where the differences between old and new covenant lie.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
      Replying to @GabeWetmore @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

      #6: The NC is the demonstration of the righteousness of God, as he faithfully fulfilled, in Christ, all that he had promised in the OC. What happened in Christ is what God was always up to. Circumcision was always a sign of faith - that was given to babies (just like baptism).

      5:31 PM - 9 Oct 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Michael Bull‏ @MrBully67 Oct 9
          Replying to @GabeWetmore @_Theopolis

          At the root of PJL’s “Abrahamic” ecclesiology is a failure to understand the expanded architecture of the New Covenant. He has to include the word “participation” because he sees baptism as inclusion in the audience rather than investiture as a prophetic witness, a speaker.pic.twitter.com/PKQ8HgX602

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
          Replying to @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

          Honestly, I don't have time to debate all of this. But I did have a question about your diagram (actually more than one, but I'm just asking this one). Are you saying you think Paul is referring to the entire world when he talks about God overlooking sin in the OC in Rom 3:25?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Michael Bull‏ @MrBully67 Oct 9
          Replying to @GabeWetmore @_Theopolis

          Yes, the nations remained under the Noahic Covenant but Israel mediated on their behalf. The baptism confusion is partly due to a failure to understand the OT covenants as cut *inside* each other. The Gentiles were still “covenant members” in that sense. http://bit.ly/2P3Ot0F pic.twitter.com/p2uLNT4P3Q

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
          Replying to @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

          But my question is specifically about Rom 3:25. Why are you interpreting that to be a reference to his passing over of the sins of every person in the world? That doesn't fit Paul's argument in that text at all.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Michael Bull‏ @MrBully67 Oct 9
          Replying to @GabeWetmore @_Theopolis

          1/2 Paul’s context here is “all those who believe.” The animal sacrifices allowed one to have a good conscience before God, but they only put a lid on the trash can – a preliminary covering. Jesus took out the rubbish...

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Gabe Wetmore‏ @GabeWetmore Oct 9
          Replying to @MrBully67 @_Theopolis

          You've now switched the meaning to its proper one. This isn't about every person in the world, but rather about how the Torah didn't actually atone/cover sins in itself. But earlier you applied the passing over of sins to the entire world, saying they weren't under obligation.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Michael Bull‏ @MrBully67 Oct 9
          Replying to @GabeWetmore @_Theopolis

          1/2 They weren't under obligation to the Mosaic Law, just as common Israelites were not under the obligations of the Levites, and the common Levites were not under the obligations of those under priestly vows, and the priests were not under the obligations of the High Priest...

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. End of conversation
        1. Michael Bull‏ @MrBully67 Oct 9
          Replying to @GabeWetmore @_Theopolis

          I agree except for your final sentence. Circumcision was for MALES as a sign of the promise (to faithful Abraham) of the coming SEED as Covenant Sanctions. In contrast, baptism — like the vow at Sinai and the Israelite robe — relates directly to personal faith in a Covenant Oath.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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