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G_S_Bhogal's profile
Gurindoor
Gurindoor
Gurindoor
@G_S_Bhogal

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Gurindoor

@G_S_Bhogal

Connoisseur of antidepressants. Words about psychology, philosophy, politics.

Joined November 2014

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    1. Yonatan Zunger  🔥‏ @yonatanzunger 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Tris_Stock @G_S_Bhogal

      @G_S_Bhogal, I think you misunderstood the statement. Vice signaling is about focusing on showing perspectives that you *know* are malicious in order to demonstrate your objectivity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Yonatan Zunger  🔥‏ @yonatanzunger 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @yonatanzunger @Tris_Stock @G_S_Bhogal

      It's distinct from trying to understand opposing perspectives in that it doesn't try to set them in context or acknowledge what the problem with them is, but rather sets the entire story from that perspective as though it were being written by its partisans.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Yonatan Zunger  🔥‏ @yonatanzunger 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @yonatanzunger @Tris_Stock @G_S_Bhogal

      So it's about intentionally writing one-sided pieces from the opposite side, which is very different from trying to see how that side fits in to a broader context. It's doing PR work, essentially, not journalism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Gurindoor‏ @G_S_Bhogal 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @yonatanzunger @Tris_Stock

      But if this is the case, then the labelling of pieces such as the NYT article about young Nazis as vice-signalling is erroneous. That article is not one-sided at all; it is a non-judgemental and fly-on-the-wall take, which is what objective journalism should be.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Yonatan Zunger  🔥‏ @yonatanzunger 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @G_S_Bhogal @Tris_Stock

      On the contrary: it's something which superficially appears to be that, but is actually very one-sided. Look through the articles (there are several) and see who's speaking: it's the voice of the Nazis that gets to speak, but no other voices.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Yonatan Zunger  🔥‏ @yonatanzunger 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @yonatanzunger @G_S_Bhogal @Tris_Stock

      And the external descriptives provided by the authors are guardedly "neutral" - meaning they portray everything as highly normal. The net result is an article that conveys "look, Nazis are just ordinary people, here's what they do" in the same tone as you might use about farmers.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Gurindoor‏ @G_S_Bhogal 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @yonatanzunger @Tris_Stock

      I've read them, and nowhere did I get the impression that the NYT was condoning Nazism. But yes, it portrays them as mundane, everyday people, which is good, because it's what they are. To fight evil, it helps to understand its banality, and the mindset that leads to it

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Yonatan Zunger  🔥‏ @yonatanzunger 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @G_S_Bhogal @Tris_Stock

      Yes and no. A core part of how Nazi recruitment works is to portray these *ideas* as everyday and normal: that, e.g., the question of "are Black and Brown people really American?" is a legitimate subject of debate.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Gurindoor‏ @G_S_Bhogal 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @yonatanzunger @Tris_Stock

      One could equally argue that to not allow such ideas to be debated is to play into the Nazi/alt-right narrative of an elite preventing the people from awaking via censorship. Better to have the arguments heard so they can be roundly defeated. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Yonatan Zunger  🔥‏ @yonatanzunger 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @G_S_Bhogal @Tris_Stock

      I have a whole essay on this subject that I keep working on. :) The TL;DR is that this statement is true for some kinds of statement, but not others. Most of all for debates about who is human: debates there tend to legitimize the question as being valid in people's minds.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Gurindoor‏ @G_S_Bhogal 30 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @yonatanzunger @Tris_Stock

      Any argument that isn't true can ultimately be invalidated, but only through debate. To censor it is to concede that it is too convincing to defeat in debate.

      11:16 AM - 30 Jan 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yonatan Zunger  🔥‏ @yonatanzunger 30 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @G_S_Bhogal @Tris_Stock

          This is something that I believed for some time but realized was actually not always true. But the explanation of this is complicated and I'm working on it, so let's put a pin in this one: I promise to come back to it soon.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Gurindoor‏ @G_S_Bhogal 30 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @yonatanzunger @Tris_Stock

          Okay, I'll hold you to that promise ;-)

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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