Muslims promoting Islam: Islam is the truth. We care about the truth. Atheists against Islam: There's no evidence. We can’t accept it as truth. We care about the truth. Atheists for Islamic reform: Just believe whatever, as long as they're not hurting me! Who cares about truth!?
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Replying to @ArminNavabi
You forgot one. Atheists against Islam, but for Islamic reform: We care about the truth, and will pursue it. But we know humans are irrational, and reason alone cannot cure them, so, until we find a way to end religion for good, we will seek to promote peaceful coexistence.
2 replies 0 retweets 21 likes -
Replying to @G_S_Bhogal
We should not lie to people no matter how irrational you find them. There're ways of simplifying the explanation. The goal is not to end religion for good. We can aim for more achievable goals. Helping even one person be more skeptical is a worthy and achievable goal.
1 reply 1 retweet 9 likes -
Replying to @ArminNavabi
I agree. The thing is, we can do all that, and *still* persuade people that if they must believe, then more moderate beliefs are best.
2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes -
Replying to @G_S_Bhogal
If one has abandoned logic and believes in fairy tales, what logic can we use in favor of more peaceful fairy tales? If they want peaceful myths, they're already peaceful. Why delude people by promoting lies? There's no need for superstition. Let's not take part in spreading it.
4 replies 9 retweets 25 likes -
Replying to @ArminNavabi
We don't have to spread superstition. But it's going to take a while to reason people out of religion, and in that time many people will suffer more FGM, child marriage, terrorism. Why not seek to end these practices now by supporting moderates *while* we work on the bigger plan?
2 replies 3 retweets 9 likes -
Replying to @G_S_Bhogal
If we promote Islamic reform, we're promoting Islam, we're promoting superstition. We can support Muslims fighting for secularism, gay rights, woman rights & democracy without giving Islam undeserved credit. Give those Muslims the credit. Not everything a Muslim does is Islam.
9 replies 21 retweets 42 likes -
Replying to @ArminNavabi
I'm not suggesting we promote Islam. By supporting Islamic reform, what I mean is that we should initially focus our attacks on the targets of reform, the worst sects like Wahhabism, and the worst aspects like FGM, and as we beat these back, we can move onto more moderate aspects
2 replies 1 retweet 6 likes -
Replying to @G_S_Bhogal
Wahhabism is a conclusion based on false premises. Applying logic to faulty premises will get you random & false conclusions. We can't steer people to logical conclusions with baseless premises. We can work with Muslims for our values without giving Islam credit for their work.
1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
We don't have to support any illogical premises. All we have to do is attack the most horrific conclusions first, in order to spare people of the suffering they cause, while we begin the long and arduous process of dismantling the premises.
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Replying to @G_S_Bhogal
The horrific conclusions are logical conclusions based on the premises. If we are to fight those conclusions, we have to either ask them to question the premises or not think logically. But without the use of logic, what are we going to use to convince anyone of our values?
1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes - 4 more replies
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