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@Foone

Hardware / software necromancer, collector of Weird Stuff, maker of Death Generators. Patreon: https://patreon.com/foone  ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/fooneturing 

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    1. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
      • Prijavi Tweet

      re: the 2020 bug because of bad y2k fixes: 10$ says that we'll see the same problem in 2040 because some programmers quick-fixed the program by just changing the cut-off date

      29 replies 134 proslijeđena tweeta 574 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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    2. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
      • Prijavi Tweet

      if we're really unlucky we'll see these errors show back up in 2030

      6 proslijeđenih tweetova 107 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    3. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
      • Prijavi Tweet

      if we're exceptionally unlucky, they'll show up in 2021

      5 replies 6 proslijeđenih tweetova 115 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    4. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
      • Prijavi Tweet

      foone je proslijedio/a tweet korisnika/ceJef Poskanzer

      that's re:https://twitter.com/jef_poskanzer/status/1213258774938415104 …

      foone je dodan/na,

      Jef Poskanzer @jef_poskanzer
      Apparently a non-trivial number of systems are experiencing #Y2020 bugs. A common Y2K "fix" just postponed things by 20 years, interpreting 00-19 as the 2000s and 20-99 as the 1900s. 20 years is now up, some of those systems are still in use, and they think it's 1920. Oooops.
      Prikaži ovu nit
      1 reply 14 proslijeđenih tweetova 111 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    5. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
      • Prijavi Tweet

      foone je proslijedio/a tweet korisnika/cefoone

      someone asked about the 2038 bug, and:https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1213500010370781184 …

      foone je dodan/na,

      foone @Foone
      Odgovor korisniku/ci @hm_zubieta
      that's a separate bug, and we're gonna see some serious fireworks when that one hits
      16 proslijeđenih tweetova 129 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
      • Prijavi Tweet

      seriously, the 2038 bug is going to make the work we had to put in for y2k look like a weekend project. it's amazing how much shit will get confused to fuck when 2038 hits. EVERYTHING is going to break if unpatched

      08:41 - 4. sij 2020.
      • 173 proslijeđena tweeta
      • 378 oznaka „sviđa mi se”
      • ah DasSkelett Maya Kaczorowski Rich Winterstetter blasse Caleb Smith Johannes Michael Young [[[Cornelia Hahn]]]
      17 replies 173 proslijeđena tweeta 378 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
        1. Novi razgovor
        2. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          the real reason it'll be a problem is because y2k was really just a "human problem". computers don't care about Gregorian dates like "2020", they don't tell time that way. They just have to convert to/from those kinds of dates sometimes because humans like 'em

          15 proslijeđenih tweetova 129 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        3. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          but the unix epoch is how computers tell time. it won't just be a y2k issue where the computer is telling humans the wrong time, it'll be computers not being able to tell time for themselves, and that will be a million or billion times worse

          25 proslijeđenih tweetova 168 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        4. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          like you'll boot your computer and before it can do anything it'll freak out that your hard drive hasn't been checked for errors in 68 years

          10 proslijeđenih tweetova 135 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        5. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          and god forbid the computer is running at the switchover time. basically every program running will think time went backwards

          7 proslijeđenih tweetova 116 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        6. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          so hopefully we will get really serious about patching this shit before it happens. hopefully.

          6 proslijeđenih tweetova 106 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        7. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          heck it's incredibly common to do things like calculate dates by taking the current time (against the unix epoch) and adding some number of seconds.

          1 reply 7 proslijeđenih tweetova 95 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        8. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          like, nearly every site that calculates when your login expires does it by taking the unix timestamp, adding some number or seconds. like: cookie.expire=time()+365*24*60*60 # expire in 1 year

          11 proslijeđenih tweetova 109 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        9. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          and in 2037 that calculation is going to start saying "OH YEAH SET THE EXPIRATION DATE TO 1970 THAT'S NORMAL AND FINE"

          12 proslijeđenih tweetova 130 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        10. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          so now you can't login to a website. because the cookie date is wrong.

          1 reply 5 proslijeđenih tweetova 86 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        11. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          and this is going to happen separately to basically EVERY SINGLE FUCKING PROGRAM and they're all going to have to be patched or replaced differently and it's going to be a nightmare

          7 replies 8 proslijeđenih tweetova 97 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        12. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          and this is such a big problem compared to y2k because of how ingrained it is. y2k was caused by a common design pattern being wrong. people just tended to design sites with 2-digit years, right? and that eventually came back to bite us

          1 reply 10 proslijeđenih tweetova 95 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        13. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          but y2038 is INGRAINED INTO THE C PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE ITSELF the standard library function time() returns seconds since 1970!

          9 replies 18 proslijeđenih tweetova 142 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        14. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          and given that basically every other programming language in common use is based on or derived from or at least maintains compatibility with C... they all do it too.

          8 proslijeđenih tweetova 91 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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        15. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          and relatedly it's also central to Unix (that's why it's the unix epoch) which is the basis (or at least a major influence on) every OS since then.

          5 proslijeđenih tweetova 82 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        16. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          so it's almost a fundamental flaw in the design of modern computing and so many things are going to break because of this.

          1 reply 6 proslijeđenih tweetova 81 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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        17. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          In any case, since I didn't really explain why it's a problem, just assumed it: The C programming language and unix store time as the number of seconds since 1970, and they do it using a 32bit signed integer.

          6 replies 19 proslijeđenih tweetova 103 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        18. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          and the largest value you can store in a 32bit signed integer is 2**31-1, or 2,147,483,647. And it turns out that 2,147,483,647 seconds from 1970 is January 19th, 2038.

          19 proslijeđenih tweetova 127 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        19. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          So after that moment, it'll wrap around (probably: it's technically undefined behavior) to the most negative number, and the computer will go "OH YEAH IT'S NOW DECEMBER 13, 1901, RIGHT?"

          5 replies 8 proslijeđenih tweetova 93 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        20. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          but the fact that it's 1901 isn't the problem, really. computers have no problem 1901! that's a human date, computers don't care.

          1 reply 6 proslijeđenih tweetova 69 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        21. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          yeah they'll tell some humans that their bank loan is now issued for the year 1901 but who cares no the problem is that when computers try to compute the day after January 19th 2038, they get December 13th 1901, which is earlier.

          9 proslijeđenih tweetova 84 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        22. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          So a program tries to run a task for an hour, and ends up stopping it instantly, because now() + 1 hour is IN THE PAST

          10 proslijeđenih tweetova 84 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        23. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          because the common pattern for doing things like that is to do something like this: end_time = time() + 60*60 while time() < end_time: do_the_thing()

          4 proslijeđena tweeta 71 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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        24. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          but when you're near 19th of January, 2038, the overflow happens in the addition, and end_time ends up being way before time(), so it never runs the thing at all.

          1 reply 3 proslijeđena tweeta 68 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        25. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          and it's easy to think about this as a problem of "oh no one will be running old code by then" but you can seriously write code that does this today and it's the easiest way to do it and that's probably not going to change anytime soon.

          4 proslijeđena tweeta 84 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        26. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          so in 2038 we'll not have this problem with code from 1980 or 2000 or 2020, we'll have this problem with code from 2030 as well

          6 replies 4 proslijeđena tweeta 81 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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        27. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          so this is going to be a problem on the scale of "re-test and fix every program ever written"

          8 proslijeđenih tweetova 81 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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        28. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          like, around when the y2k fixing effort really spun up, there were a lot of retired cobol & fortran programmers being called up to help fix it

          1 reply 5 proslijeđenih tweetova 67 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        29. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          in 2036 you're gonna have everyone who has "programming" on their resume called up because we're going to need to fix every program running anywhere, basically.

          10 proslijeđenih tweetova 101 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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        30. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Although to move away from the apocalyptic stuff, the one thing that'll hopefully help us is interpreted dynamically typed languages like Javascript that run on standard runtimes.

          4 proslijeđena tweeta 71 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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        31. foone‏ @Foone 4. sij
          • Prijavi Tweet

          because you can fix the runtime and hopefully it won't break any programs to suddenly start getting 64-bit integers instead of 32-bit ones. In theory you could modify javascript to start doing the fix to this today, and 99% of JS programs won't notice.

          7 replies 4 proslijeđena tweeta 74 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        32. Još 3 druga odgovora

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