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FND Portal

@FndPortal

Putting the “fun" in "functional neurological disorder. Sharing news, info, and musings about FND. When we work together, we can change things for the better.

fndportal.wordpress.com
Vrijeme pridruživanja: studeni 2018.

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    FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
    • Prijavi Tweet

    FND Portal je proslijedio/a tweet korisnika/cedavidtuller

    So here’s a potentially productive conversation: is Functional Neurological Disorder really a structural disorder or a functional one? Should it be considered “psychological”? Do we even know what it is? (thread)https://twitter.com/davidtuller1/status/1213518599018565633 …

    FND Portal je dodan/na,

    davidtuller @davidtuller1
    Odgovor korisnicima @FndPortal @FairlieHall @KH118118
    How is that different from other neurological disorders? by that definition, aren't they all also "psychological"? By the way, I'm not the one who created "conversion disorder" and "psychogenic disorder" as wholly psychological phenomena.
    12:37 - 4. sij 2020.
    • 30 proslijeđenih tweetova
    • 72 oznake „sviđa mi se”
    • Dalton AR Sakthivadivel Maureen Shaw A Chronic Voice Fco Gilo Arrojo Tumim & Prendergast Hülya Mcconville Dawn Golder Angel Perez Nichola Ní Mhuraláin
    11 replies 30 proslijeđenih tweetova 72 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
      1. Novi razgovor
      2. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        To respond to Dr Tuller’s first question: how is FND different from other neurological disorders? In some ways, it’s not! It creates real disability, with symptoms often comparable to other neuro disorders like MS, and the source of that dysfunction is the brain.

        1 proslijeđeni tweet 12 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      3. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        This is part of why some patients have argued against an exclusively psychological formulation: because it’s not just a subjective belief that you have, say, a gait disorder. You actually do.

        1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 11 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      4. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        IMO, FND should be all rights be a fully paid-up member of the Neurological Disorders Club. The fact that it isn’t (yet) widely recognized as such reflects a few differences: (FND experts, plz jump in here if I’ve erred or if you feel something I’ve said is not quite right)

        1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 9 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      5. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        1) FND has a different character than other neuro disorders. It’s not (directly) due to a pathogen, or genetic abnormalities, or autoimmune issues where your immune cells eat the myelin on your spinal cord or that kind of thing.

        1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 8 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      6. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Following that, it’s not typically visible on MRI. My understanding is that’s because brain changes in FND at least typically begin at a micro level, too small for typical MRI to pick up.

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 13 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      7. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Although both imaging technology and analysis techniques are getting better, and with these researchers are now able to examine differences at both the functional (micro) and structural (macro) levels. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voxel-based_morphometry …

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 9 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      8. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        (Neuroimaging is super not my strong point, so anyone with that background, please feel free to clarify or correct!) (@JalilianRozita could perhaps speak to the specifics of this?)

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 5 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      9. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Anyway, neurologists are sometimes skeptical because FND symptoms can be “inconsistent”, which implies they’re not due to the same kind of permanent structural damage that you’d see with something like a brain lesion.

        1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 9 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      10. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Then (and this is where I think the scales in many a doctor’s mind start to tip heavily) symptoms sometimes appear to be driven or influenced by psychological factors.

        1 proslijeđeni tweet 9 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      11. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        FND patients as a group have a very high rate of adverse life events, from neglect to abuse to physical injury and chronic pain. Although importantly not everyone seems to have a psychological history, which I think is significant.https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(18)30051-8/fulltext …

        2 proslijeđena tweeta 24 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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      12. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        So, having that picture: “inconsistent” + no findings on MRI + past history of mental illness seems to suggest to some neurologists that this is REALLY a fully psychological disorder, AKA not a neurological one...

        1 proslijeđeni tweet 11 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      13. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        AKA a problem of the mind not the brain, and thus not my problem, please go find someone else to fix your crazy. We’ll leave the stigmatizing attitude re: mental illness for another time...

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 18 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      14. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        But it’s not fully psychological anyway! And that’s what I mean by saying that FND is bigger than either psychiatry or neurology. “Fully psychological” also doesn’t explain how people develop these symptoms after injury, as I and many others have. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24439198/# …

        1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 16 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      15. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        So what is functional neurological disorder, then? The evidence suggests that it’s a (yes) neurological disorder, and that the dysfunction lies in multi-modal brain networks at the top of the neural hierarchy.

        1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 12 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      16. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Part of this is the so-called “limbic system”, which classically has been associated with emotions. AHA! PSYCHOLOGICAL! 🙄 (hang on)

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 11 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      17. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        But it turns out the brain systems affected in FND also handle everything from motor control to attention to memory and visual perception and monitoring the state of the body (the interoceptive network). Multi-modal brain networks. 👍

        1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 12 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      18. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        So that reflects a general truism of the brain, which is that most brain areas don’t do one dedicated thing, they do like 9 different things. That’s prob why people can develop the same neurological symptoms from a nasty divorce or a car accident: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29868890 …

        0 proslijeđenih tweetova 12 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      19. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Because there are *no exclusively emotional networks in the brain*. A physical or emotional disruption can produce the same symptoms because they screw up the same brain networks, which are doing multiple things at once.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9pc8bCDm32U …

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 10 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      20. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        So that requires us to recognize that a psychological stressor need not be present for someone to get FND, but also acknowledge that it can happen that way, and that the disorder is sensitive/responsive to both emotional and sensory stimuli.

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 16 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      21. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        That also explains why symptoms can be “inconsistent”: it’s not the same as a lesion in motor cortex, which in one spot would reliably impair your ability to say, move your left leg. The problem is higher up in the hierarchy, in the areas that govern deployment of other systems.

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 10 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      22. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        (Specifically these areas are concerned with attention and action initiation)

        0 proslijeđenih tweetova 9 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      23. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        That also explains why symptoms can recede with distraction: because you’ve momentarily occupied the dysfunctional parts of the brain with something else, and they’ve stopped interfering with the normal operations of the hierarchically lower areas.

        0 proslijeđenih tweetova 16 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      24. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Like when a micromanaging boss takes the day off and everyone gets more productive.

        0 proslijeđenih tweetova 21 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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      25. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        That attentional-emotional-bodysensing character is also why symptoms that seem really different, like certain types of tremors and paralysis and seizures and speech difficulty, frequently co-occur in the same patients, + are considered symptoms of FND.

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 10 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      26. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Because they share common qualities reflecting a shared underlying dysfunction in the same brain networks.

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 7 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      27. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        From a patient perspective, this updated understanding of the brain also tends to make sense. It jives with our stories and experience of how the disorder started: usually some disruptive episode amplified by attention towards the body. And then we couldn’t get un-stuck.

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 9 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      28. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        From a not-patient perspective, many of our stories conversely slot nicely into how computational approaches to the brain theorize how these things might happen. It all starts to come together.

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 5 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      29. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        (Andy Clark @fluffycyborg and Karl Friston have both written on this) https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/135/11/3495/270457 … https://global.oup.com/academic/product/surfing-uncertainty-9780190217013 …

        0 proslijeđenih tweetova 10 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      30. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        Regarding “structural vs functional”: FND is at LEAST a functional disorder, and appears to be in some cases a structural one. The question is “why would it be structural?”

        1 reply 0 proslijeđenih tweetova 6 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      31. FND Portal‏ @FndPortal 4. sij
        • Prijavi Tweet

        There isn’t a definitive answer to this yet, but one possibility is that the structural changes develop out of the initial functional ones.

        0 proslijeđenih tweetova 7 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      32. Još 10 drugih odgovora

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