this is a really big part of the "waking down is hard" thing.
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Replying to @danlistensto @euvieivanova and
Yeah, it's easy to turn it into some kind of superiority complex, but it's not about being better than anyone -- it's about suffering less than most people, and seeing just how terrible people are at addressing their suffering but not being able to do anything about it.
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @euvieivanova and
hmmm, wasn't thinking superiority complex though I guess you're right, spiritual pride is a problem for some people. was thinking more that you need to wake down and reintegrate because you still have your mundane life to deal with (unless you retreat to a monastery forever).
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Replying to @danlistensto @euvieivanova and
Oh I didn't get the sense that you were thinking about that, just wanted to clarify. A life-long retreat sounds great, though that seems a bit like escapism to me. Being awake in the world is indeed much harder than being awake in a cave.
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @euvieivanova and
more to the point, I don't see how permanent monasticism is AT ALL compatible with ethical living. one of the contradictions about so much of the Mahayana traditions that I can't quite reconcile. You literally take a vow to save all sentient beings. You have to be engaged.
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Replying to @danlistensto @Failed_Buddhist and
Yes, but according to that worldview, you are *magically* engaged. Your thoughts and prayers are beaming out of the monastery and influencing reality in a positive direction. (Not saying I believe that, but that's how it works in that tradition.)
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Replying to @OortCloudAtlas @Failed_Buddhist and
Yeah. This is a big part of the archaic metaphysics that needs a reckoning imo. To be fair, it doesn't seem to be that big of a problem in Western Buddhism afaict. Bernie Glassman's approach seems more typical, and an appropriate update for American life.
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Replying to @danlistensto @OortCloudAtlas and
The dharma will be at its peak when the West is good at calling Buddhism on its bullshit, and vice versa. Though the flip-side of Western Buddhism dumping everything it finds too mystical is that it makes you wonder if there are useful parts that we just don't understand yet.
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @OortCloudAtlas and
The student asked "What is the true meaning of Shakyamuni's great realization?" The master said "Gotta call you on that bullshit, friend."
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Replying to @danlistensto @OortCloudAtlas and
I feel like the ultimate Zen master move would be intimately training a student for 20-30 years, and then one day saying to them "Now you are ready for the highest truth, and it is this: Everything I've taught you is complete bullshit. I made it all up!"
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Come to think of it that might be closer to reality than a joke.
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @OortCloudAtlas and
nonono, the real Zen approach is to say that on day 1. the student doesn't believe it at first. then 30 years later when they've managed to convince themselves through direct experience the master says "I told you so."
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Replying to @danlistensto @OortCloudAtlas and
Followed by a smack over the head.
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End of conversation
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