Interesting and entertaining discussion here from @verybadwizards.
"Are Buddhists Afraid to Die?https://verybadwizards.fireside.fm/137
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Ugh, I forgot to close my quote. Damn you, Friday the 13th!
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Yeah, the fact that those in the study weren’t necessarily meditators kind of negates my interest in it. Experience of no-self very different than ideology
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Right. You don't gain much more through believing Buddhist doctrines than believing any other doctrines. It's the work that counts. Nonetheless I found the discussion worthwhile. And to be fair,
@tamler actually raised this point.
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In their discussion, I remember Shaun Nichols characterizing the monks they interviewed as not having reached 10k hours of meditation. But even if they haven't gotten to that level, doesn't their "job" alone, "Buddhist monk", imply they should they are pretty serious meditators?
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I'm actually unsure whether their job implies that. Perhaps
@chagmed can weigh in on that. In any case, it would also be relevant to know specifically what meditation practices they have done, and how much. Not everything that the Tibetans consider meditation would be relevant. -
Few Vajrayana monks are serious meditators. Many are in the monastery for an education. The best and brightest attend a college called Shedra, with an emphasis on logic, studying texts. The very best are ordained Khenpos (abbots), most without much retreat experience.
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Provocative findings. Real Tibetan monastic Buddhists are even more afraid of death than other people according to researcher. I'll make a bold assertion to stir up trouble: fear of death isn't possible for someone who actually understands Buddhism. Interview begins at 22:00.
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"Tibetan monastic Buddhists are even more afraid of death than other people according to researcher" Garfield's used a scale that a large body of literature claims is not indexing "fear" but rather basic underlying human concern towards these constructs. Which is not novel.
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Can you point me to some of that literature, or get me started in the right direction? When I google "Garfield fear of death," it just returns the study we are discussing.
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Yeah, I assume the Garfield paper is the one you guys are discussing?https://twitter.com/fuzzylogic8250/status/955601517788192770 …
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After a quick look at the Lazar paper, I agree it does a better job of considering multiple factors. It matters, for example, whether someone fears death because they see it as personal annihilation or because they are worried their loved ones will struggle when they're gone.
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Yeah, and the Garfield paper about Tibetan Buddhist fearing death will be cited by general sources for the next ten years (it's already old) but within his sphere of academic literature it is a weak paper. LionsRoar loved it.
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Well put. This is yet another example of the inadequacies that come along with scientists studying meditation or Buddhism that don't really understand meditation or Buddhism. If you're gonna perform a study on something, you might want to have a good grasp on the subject first!
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