As for the go-to definition of classic awakening, the short version is that you realize that there’s no such thing inside you as a self. There’s much more after that, but that’s considered the basic “qualification.” (And, yes, I’m aware of all that’s problematic @ that def.)
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Yeah, the other version (same thing, differently stated) is realizing "I'm just the witness". Which you get seems to depend on your tradition/previous learning/framing. Or that's my understanding, I am (probably) willing to defer. But awakening is not enlightenment.
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Replying to @iwelsh @OortCloudAtlas and
What's the difference between awakening and enlightenment, in your view?
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @OortCloudAtlas and
awakening is when you get your first experiential proof that you are not all that crap. So, for example, my first awakening got me "I am not my personality". Didn't get me "I am not my body." Further awakenings got me other stuff.
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Replying to @iwelsh @Failed_Buddhist and
as for enlightenment. /shrug/ there are a fair number of definitions that seem reasonable "I am everything/nothing", Jiva-mukti (end of new conditioning), the dissolving and reassembly of sense data, etc... Not sure which is "enlightenment". Am sure I am not enlightened.
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Replying to @iwelsh @Failed_Buddhist and
however, other people use the words in other ways, and I am not saying they are wrong. This is just how I used them. I will say that this causes problem. My first main teacher told me I was enlightened. I said "uh, don't think so". He meant what I mean by awakened.
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Replying to @iwelsh @OortCloudAtlas and
Let's not forget that "enlightenment" is a late western translation of "bodhi", which is also exactly where the term "awakening" comes from. So the distinction is, at best, a little murky. There isn't even a consensus among Buddhists as to what the Buddha "woke up" from (or to).
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @iwelsh and
Personally I don't like these terms. They only start Buddhist flame wars and confuse people. Seems to me that "enlightenment" is just a placeholder for some vague notion of an "ultimate" attainment. The meaning changes depending on a tradition's language, culture, or metaphysics.
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @iwelsh and
Trying to get enlightened is a fool's errand, because it's a completely arbitrary goal. If you want insight into impermanence, do the specific practices that bring about that insight. If you want to glimpse emptiness or no-self, do the respective practices for these insights.
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @OortCloudAtlas and
I would simply say that there appear to be different types of enlightenment, so aim for the one(s) you want. But residing in is very different from glimpsing.
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Agreed. I liked that Chan master quote you posted. Awakening can be seen as coming to an understanding of what it is you're actually doing in practice. Then you actually have to practice it.
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