The inability to recognize the cultural contingents of practice is a problem that repeats over, over and over again. The failure of yoga in the West is a good example. Buddhism, too.
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Interesting point - please say more.
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I am in the fortunate position of being two links of association away from many of those tasked with this stuff; too far to be entangled, close enough to understand broad strokes. You can't just bring the practice into a foreign culture. It won't "click". Too much baggage. E.g.:
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- Metta, compassion and love-based yogic practice DO NOT WORK for majority of westerners. - Social structure inimical to gurus, ashram, sangha etc. Those that flourish often (really often) are cults. - Scientism vs. mysticism; porting language is hard, stuff lost in translation.
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Replying to @Triquetrea @SonOfEmerson
Well said. Your last bullet point is especially important, perhaps one of the biggest obstacles to Buddhism in the West. It certainly delayed my practice for a while as a skeptic without any understanding of the subtleties and nuances of dharma.
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @SonOfEmerson
Mmh. I don't think cloaking it in scientific language is a clear-cut victory, either. A lot of these ideas *are* mystical or existential. Why lie?
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Replying to @Triquetrea @SonOfEmerson
Not necessarily scientific language - that often produces disastrous results that end up backfiring (see plethora of quantum woo on the market). Just more practical language that is in harmony with a scientific understanding (ala Wright or Harris).
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Replying to @Failed_Buddhist @SonOfEmerson
That is how you end up making unfalsifiable claims on scientific grounds. These practices are all experiential, "has to be seen to be believed" stuff. Claiming it has much basis in science is flat-out wrong. We don't know enough. (Discounting the super-basic stuff, of course)
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There is very interesting research into persistent non-dual awareness as an example, but it is just that: research. There is no unifying theory or strong pattern of findings just yet.
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Replying to @Triquetrea @SonOfEmerson
Right. And the problem is that the evidence people tend to want is that it's clinically effective relative to other "relaxation" techniques. That may or may not be the case (data just isn't satisfying at this point).
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But that's actually irrelevant, because the practice is not about relaxation - it's about radically transforming your relationship to the self and the world. The latter is much harder to study, and must be seen to understand.
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Yes, a mentor of mine said that there are two types of relaxation, the physical relaxation of the body, and the deep relaxation of dualistic fixations.
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Almost 100% certain that's also embodied, but I see your point.
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