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ESYudkowsky's profile
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
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@ESYudkowsky

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Eliezer YudkowskyVerified account

@ESYudkowsky

Ours is the era of inadequate AI alignment theory. Any other facts about this era are relatively unimportant, but sometimes I tweet about them anyway.

Joined June 2014

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    Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Dec 2017

    Eliezer Yudkowsky Retweeted Byzantine Ambassador

    Among the conversations that strangely never seem to take place around me is "If we could just eliminate all the meaningless work, our civilization would be productive enough for Basic Income. Why the hell does that even happen?"https://twitter.com/byzantinepower/status/944165275217416192 …

    Eliezer Yudkowsky added,

    Byzantine Ambassador @byzantinepower
    In a 2015 YouGov poll, 37 percent of UK respondents described their job as "utterly meaningless".
    10:00 AM - 22 Dec 2017
    • 17 Retweets
    • 72 Likes
    • Robert Callbeck Scott Reed notthedarklord SeaWyrm Merman Turtletaur, Attorney at Law Kevin Schawinski Samuel Kleiner Physical Attraction Podcast Anton Karamanov
    9 replies 17 retweets 72 likes
      1. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Dec 2017

        The study of the "bullshit jobs" phenomenon ought to be as central to modern economics as it is to modern economies. And yet it's almost ignored except for blog posts. Like the pileup of college administrators has to be documented, but ultimately taken for granted.

        9 replies 15 retweets 77 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Geoffrey Irving‏ @geoffreyirving 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        But if we didn't force people to work meaningless jobs, they might spend their time doing nothing useful!?

        3 replies 3 retweets 10 likes
      3. Matt Sperling‏ @sickofit 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @geoffreyirving @ESYudkowsky

        Agree with the general sentiment here, but let's not pretend 0 is a floor on the impact of how people spend their time.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. Geoffrey Irving‏ @geoffreyirving 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @sickofit @ESYudkowsky

        0 is a floor when someone works a meaningless job?

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Jim Wisniewski‏ @wisnij 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        that said, I suspect many of the poll responders really meant "meaningless to me the worker in a direct emotional sense" rather than "literally providing no benefit to society"

        1 reply 1 retweet 12 likes
      3. 1 more reply
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      2. David Manheim‏ @davidmanheim 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        I've worked across several industries, and invariably, the "meaningless" jobs are beneficial for the organization - though frequently this is due to inadequate equilibria.

        2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
      3. David Manheim‏ @davidmanheim 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @davidmanheim @ESYudkowsky

        (But I'm unsure why you think we're not already rich enough for basic income, if only you could solve the calculation problem without creating the conflicting motives that create many inadequate equilibria in capitalism.)

        0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Francesco Dondi‏ @fdondi1 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        I'm pretty sure many burger flippers and street sweepers rated their work meaningless; when not having to substitute them with robots saves us a lot of money. While many bulshitt workers probably think of themselves as pillars of their communities.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. Watson Ladd‏ @WatsonLadd 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Also overlaps with understaffing. Something is broken in the labor market

        0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
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      1. Josh Regev‏ @jsrgev 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        I find it strange when people suggest that those doing meaningful jobs might subsidize freeloaders, rather than share those meaningful jobs, so they can work less and others can contribute as well as collect.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      2. entirelyuseless‏ @entirelyuseles 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        The meaningless work happens because the people doing meaningful work demand it. The alternative is not more meaningful work; it is the same people doing meaningful work, and the others not working. They find that unacceptable.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. entirelyuseless‏ @entirelyuseles 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @entirelyuseles @ESYudkowsky

        Of course, all this is just the long form of "if we eliminated the meaningless work we would be productive enough for Basic Income." The point is that Basic Income doesn't exist because the people doing meaningful work find it unacceptable.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. Daniel Houck‏ @daniel_houck 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @entirelyuseles @ESYudkowsky

        If 37% of work is meaningless, at least cut standard hours and increase standard vacation times so that people can share the meaningful work.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. entirelyuseless‏ @entirelyuseles 23 Dec 2017
        Replying to @daniel_houck @ESYudkowsky

        UK already has much more vacation time than US. So they've already done this compared to Americans.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. Mason Masters  👨‍🌾 📉‏ @mm_thewriter 22 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        But the only reason we have an economy is because of bullshit jobs

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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