That’s not the point. The critique revolves around whether ppl are actually trying to do good, or merely look good & fit in with peers.
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i think when people get upset at 'virtue signalling' what they're upset at is the massive possible divergence between "having property X" and "signaling that you have property X"
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i think that this possible divergence can be corrected via new social technology; i imagine politics on the blockchain with primitives we'd use to state values and construct claim graphs
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That linguistic breakdown sounds nice until you break it down. There's behavior that unintentionally conveys social signals (secondary social signaling), and there's primary social signaling -- behavior whose purpose is to mimic positive secondary social signaling.
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Secondary signaling is symptomatic of behavior which makes self and others the recipients of virtuous behaviors rather than the audience meant to be milked for recognition, having grazed/gazed on ones apparent virtues.
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There's a difference between doing something virtuous with the byproduct of such action signalling one's virtue (by having skin in the game) vs. signalling virtue without doing anything (absence of SITG)
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Yes, but come on - when people criticize virtue signaling, I think it's generally obvious that they are criticizing those who use the signal as a surrogate for actual virtue, or where it is used to manipulate others into believing the signaler is virtuous for more selfish aims.
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People shouldn't criticize others for what they *say* (signaling) but rather what they fail to *do* (not taking meaningful action on a cause they claim to care about).https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/933177694182719488 …
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Many have a small desire to help strangers in need. If this desire can be satisfied by virtue signaling then signaling virtue is a substitute for charity.
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Those who put effort into signaling virtue usually don't possess it. Nor wish to.
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I choose to signal batman.
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Can you name one example of good virtue signaling? Everything I can think of makes the world a slightly worse place.
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I could say that if signaling is part of the motivation, than the intrinsic motivation is lower to express the same virtue, which could predict less virtue in case future circumstances are harsher or signaler is alone.
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.@esyodkowsky By limiting signals to 3 choices ignores other expressions. If that was the intent in straw-man position well done. Otherwise, signalling virtue is also similar to a peacock depending on the circumstances.
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The charge is that the signaling is the whole point. It’s an indictment of a person’s motives. “You’re just doing that to look good, not to be good.”
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Whats your criteria for the signaling of virtue and the true measure of it? Does virtue have to be authentic within the signaler? Can it be attempted vitue without the signal being a deceptive one?
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Cf. Aristotelian virtue ethics wouldn't work without virtue signaling. We need to know Magnanimity when we see it!
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