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ESYudkowsky's profile
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Verified account
@ESYudkowsky

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Eliezer YudkowskyVerified account

@ESYudkowsky

Ours is the era of inadequate AI alignment theory. Any other facts about this era are relatively unimportant, but sometimes I tweet about them anyway.

Joined June 2014

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    Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 21 Nov 2017

    Look, people can either signal virtue, signal malice, or signal neutrality, and I for one shall favor those who signal virtue. Now, you wanna be, "That's not virtue!", that's fine. But if it is, ain't nothing wrong with signaling it.

    7:37 PM - 21 Nov 2017
    • 16 Retweets
    • 134 Likes
    • Lucre Snooker Gamarad Sean Hinds Francisco Boni Necroeconomiconomist 🌐 Allan Blanchard MTL Ash vs the Evil Dead resipisence1
    15 replies 16 retweets 134 likes
      1. Lee Hulbert-Williams‏ @drleehw 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        That’s not the point. The critique revolves around whether ppl are actually trying to do good, or merely look good & fit in with peers.

        0 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
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      2. Mark P Xu Neyer‏ @APXHard 21 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        i think when people get upset at 'virtue signalling' what they're upset at is the massive possible divergence between "having property X" and "signaling that you have property X"

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      3. Mark P Xu Neyer‏ @APXHard 21 Nov 2017
        Replying to @APXHard @ESYudkowsky

        i think that this possible divergence can be corrected via new social technology; i imagine politics on the blockchain with primitives we'd use to state values and construct claim graphs

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Daemon Todd‏ @daemontodd 21 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        That linguistic breakdown sounds nice until you break it down. There's behavior that unintentionally conveys social signals (secondary social signaling), and there's primary social signaling -- behavior whose purpose is to mimic positive secondary social signaling.

        2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Josh Suich‏ @jsuich 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @daemontodd @ESYudkowsky

        Secondary signaling is symptomatic of behavior which makes self and others the recipients of virtuous behaviors rather than the audience meant to be milked for recognition, having grazed/gazed on ones apparent virtues.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Bardia‏ @thepericulum 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        There's a difference between doing something virtuous with the byproduct of such action signalling one's virtue (by having skin in the game) vs. signalling virtue without doing anything (absence of SITG) @nntaleb

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. Rusty Guinn‏ @WRGuinn 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Yes, but come on - when people criticize virtue signaling, I think it's generally obvious that they are criticizing those who use the signal as a surrogate for actual virtue, or where it is used to manipulate others into believing the signaler is virtuous for more selfish aims.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. Decentralization is the New Antitrust‏ @analyticascent 30 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Decentralization is the New Antitrust Retweeted Eliezer Yudkowsky

        People shouldn't criticize others for what they *say* (signaling) but rather what they fail to *do* (not taking meaningful action on a cause they claim to care about).https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/933177694182719488 …

        Decentralization is the New Antitrust added,

        Eliezer YudkowskyVerified account @ESYudkowsky
        Look, people can either signal virtue, signal malice, or signal neutrality, and I for one shall favor those who signal virtue. Now, you wanna be, "That's not virtue!", that's fine. But if it is, ain't nothing wrong with signaling it.
        0 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
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      1. James Miller‏ @JimDMiller 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Many have a small desire to help strangers in need. If this desire can be satisfied by virtue signaling then signaling virtue is a substitute for charity.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Joel Pinheiro‏ @JoelPinheiro85 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Those who put effort into signaling virtue usually don't possess it. Nor wish to.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Ayenem‏ @TheAyenem 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        I choose to signal batman.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. David Iach  🚀‏ @davidiach 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Can you name one example of good virtue signaling? Everything I can think of makes the world a slightly worse place.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Luca Dellanna‏ @DellAnnaLuca 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        I could say that if signaling is part of the motivation, than the intrinsic motivation is lower to express the same virtue, which could predict less virtue in case future circumstances are harsher or signaler is alone.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. DizzyBrad‏ @dizzybrad 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        .@esyodkowsky By limiting signals to 3 choices ignores other expressions. If that was the intent in straw-man position well done. Otherwise, signalling virtue is also similar to a peacock depending on the circumstances. @primalpoly

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Cole Cruz‏ @ColeCrumb 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        The charge is that the signaling is the whole point. It’s an indictment of a person’s motives. “You’re just doing that to look good, not to be good.”

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Josh Suich‏ @jsuich 22 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Whats your criteria for the signaling of virtue and the true measure of it? Does virtue have to be authentic within the signaler? Can it be attempted vitue without the signal being a deceptive one?

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Amjad Masad‏ @amasad 21 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Cf. Aristotelian virtue ethics wouldn't work without virtue signaling. We need to know Magnanimity when we see it!

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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