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ESYudkowsky's profile
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
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@ESYudkowsky

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Eliezer YudkowskyVerified account

@ESYudkowsky

Ours is the era of inadequate AI alignment theory. Any other facts about this era are relatively unimportant, but sometimes I tweet about them anyway.

Joined June 2014

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    Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 16 Nov 2017

    Reminder: if a 50-year-old man uses his power to pressure a reluctant 18-year-old woman into sex, the numbers 50 and 18 have literally... nothing... to... do... with why this is morally (or legally) wrong. Mrs. Grundy's salacious tut-tut about the woman's youth insults the woman.

    5:32 PM - 16 Nov 2017
    • 6 Retweets
    • 58 Likes
    • Razan Ibrahim Omer It's a Mia Jotto999 M Spephton Katie Georgevich Tony Dunsworth The Dread Canary James Oliver descendent of Joaquim Oliveira
    8 replies 6 retweets 58 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Lev Reyzin‏ @lreyzin 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        There is a legal/illegal discontinuity at a certain age, but morality is more complicated.

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @lreyzin

        If you think you know better than an 18-year-old who chooses of her own will and desire to proposition a 50-year-old man... maybe you're right. But anyone who looks to you to decide that is subordinating her decision to your supposedly greater wisdom about *her* life.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky @lreyzin

        It's true. There's no sharp cutoffs in reality. Some 16-year-olds are wise enough to make up their own minds, some 21-year-olds aren't. But it is *problematic* to try to pick and choose. Society drew a line and I think that may have been wise.

        3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
      5. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky @lreyzin

        Looking away from the nonconsent to tut-tut about the age difference implies you somehow know she couldn't have been some 50-year-old's equal and competent to start such a relationship on her own if she'd so chosen. That's trivializing her choices, and not at a good time.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Anna Gát‏ @TheAnnaGat 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        What to do w fact that 18 year old adult has far less economic & social power than say 38 year old would, plus their learning of what a healthy hierarchical or sexual relationship is has just begun? I see a huge difference there tho hard to define in law. Precedents help I guess?

        2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
      3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @TheAnnaGat

        People can trick other people at any age. People can pressure other people at any age. Some 18-year-olds are smarter, more socially competent, or even wealthier than some 38-year-olds. The problem isn't the numbers 38 and 18.

        2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
      4. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky @TheAnnaGat

        I worry it's problematic to not draw a sharp line where we stop second-guessing someone and let her start to learn from her own consensual mistakes. More importantly, when somebody just got *assaulted*, it's *exactly the wrong time* to start sideways hinting at her incompetence!

        0 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. David Zugman‏ @DJZ3 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Age is rough proxy for power

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      3. David Zugman‏ @DJZ3 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @DJZ3 @ESYudkowsky

        Your understanding of chimp psychology is wanting

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Maschinen Raus‏ @maschinenraus 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Same for the words "man" and "woman", for that matter.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. A. Lowdon‏ @adlowdon 18 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        "Moral judgement can be hard so morality doesn't exist" is a bad take

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. North Carolina State Senator Kebabs.‏ @FetusKebabs 18 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Of course it does, you moron. If the sex is coerced due to power dynamics, its incredibly important.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Brian  🇲🇽 🇮🇱‏ @SpeakingBee 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        When a 21 year old man persuades—voluntarily or not—a 16 year old girl into sex, those two numbers have everything to do with why it is legally and morally wrong and he belongs in prison for years.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. jonni‏ @jonni 17 Nov 2017
        Replying to @SpeakingBee @ESYudkowsky

        @SpeakingBee @ESYudkowsky The lower age in Eleizer’s example seems chosen to be unambiguously above the age of consent. However, the scenario you present is still legal in most countries.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Naglfar‏ @RUMNEM 16 Nov 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Maturity and development have nothing to do with how morally wrong it is to pressure someone sexually? And age is not a good metric for these factors?

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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