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ESYudkowsky's profile
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
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@ESYudkowsky

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Eliezer YudkowskyVerified account

@ESYudkowsky

Ours is the era of inadequate AI alignment theory. Any other facts about this era are relatively unimportant, but sometimes I tweet about them anyway.

Joined June 2014

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    1. Robin Hanson‏Verified account @robinhanson 11 Nov 2017

      "Moral facts are facts about cooperation, and the conditions and practices that support or undermine it."https://academic.oup.com/bjps/article-abstract/68/4/981/2669734?redirectedFrom=fulltext …

      2 replies 8 retweets 30 likes
      Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @robinhanson

      Trivially refuted by anyone with enough imagination and enough grasp of orthogonality to envision cooperative evil aliens.

      11:42 AM - 11 Nov 2017
      • 9 Likes
      • niko lai ⚓ Bottlenecked_Y Fake_Name1234 Mathlev Raxenblatz prior probability Adam Sherwood • Tetraspace and Grouping Matthew LeBar
      4 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
        1. haig‏ @haig 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          It's cooperation in the non-cognitive sense: an intrinsic motivation being followed, not a reflective strategy being played. Not something one does, but something one is. Your imagined cooperative evil alien, like p-zombies, is a philosophical overthought.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Toothy McFrye‏ @ToothyMcFrye 12 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          If the aliens are cooperative with us, they're not evil. If you mean they're evil towards someone else besides us (f.ex. to members of their own species), then this means that they're not cooperative with those to whom they inflict evil.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Victor Levoso‏ @VictorLevoso 13 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ToothyMcFrye @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          But what if the aliens are cooperative between themselves and we are cooperative which other humans but our values aren't compatible so we don't want to cooperate with each other . does that make us ( and the aliens) both evil?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Victor Levoso‏ @VictorLevoso 13 Nov 2017
          Replying to @VictorLevoso @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          Or is being cooperative whith humans necessary ? Are you saying cooperation = goodness or cooperation with humans implies goodness.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Toothy McFrye‏ @ToothyMcFrye 13 Nov 2017
          Replying to @VictorLevoso @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          I'm noping out of this thread, but not before saying that the concept of evil exists only in the mind. But don't think that evil is not real! Remember that our minds and the ideas they contain are part of the world, too. I think you can make yourself an answer out of that.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation
        1. Fake_Name1234‏ @Fake_Name1234 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          Cartels are also cooperative. I would follow Kant in saying that cooperation can only be moral to the point that it doesn't cancel out freedom.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. mariellevolz‏ @mariellevolz 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          The article was about human moral facts. Presumably the evil aliens have evolved their own, different moral system.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. mariellevolz‏ @mariellevolz 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mariellevolz @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          It's more trivially refuted by moral facts relating to the treatment of one's own children. Very few implications for cooperation there.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Toothy McFrye‏ @ToothyMcFrye 12 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mariellevolz @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          "Very few" is the same as "some", which implies that this is not a refutation at all. Because, in order to properly refute it, it must be shown that there are *no* implications.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Toothy McFrye‏ @ToothyMcFrye 12 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ToothyMcFrye @mariellevolz and

          Presumably, in the presented model, the moral values related to children are to be interpreted as a form of cooperation between the parents, the children, and the rest of society.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. mariellevolz‏ @mariellevolz 12 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ToothyMcFrye @ESYudkowsky @robinhanson

          Right, that just doesn't make any sense though. There's a strong evolutionary drive to take care of one's own children. The cooperative implications are tiny in comparison.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation

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