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ESYudkowsky's profile
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
Eliezer Yudkowsky
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@ESYudkowsky

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Eliezer YudkowskyVerified account

@ESYudkowsky

Ours is the era of inadequate AI alignment theory. Any other facts about this era are relatively unimportant, but sometimes I tweet about them anyway.

Joined June 2014

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    Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017

    Eliezer Yudkowsky Retweeted Geoffrey Miller

    #UnpopularOpinion: Unavoidable ignorance of a law, because your society has too many laws to learn, is a defense.https://twitter.com/primalpoly/status/922139323457200128 …

    Eliezer Yudkowsky added,

    Geoffrey MillerVerified account @primalpoly
    Canada decides that ignorance of the law makes it OK to inflict multiple felony sexual assaults on a woman. https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-41699245 …
    10:07 AM - 22 Oct 2017
    • 11 Retweets
    • 50 Likes
    • № Mason Hartman 🏃🏻✂️ Daniel Houck entirelyuseless Arturo Goosnargh Orion Jakob Dalgaard 1RAOKADAY Allan Blanchard
    11 replies 11 retweets 50 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017

        A healthy society has few enough laws that you can be told all of the ones that apply to you. This couple should have been able to learn.../

        3 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017

        ...all the relevant laws applying to them as a married couple, on immigrating. You cannot expect people to reinvent all of morality... 2/

        2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017

        ...on their own. You could not take somebody out of the Bronze Age, wait for them to do something evil, and then pounce, while calling... 3/

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017

        ...yourself a good person, possessed of empathy and perspective. You couldn’t pass that test if the Future seized you and ran it on you.

        2 replies 1 retweet 13 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017

        Let’s be clear: the attacker was missing a spark of goodness that could let him guess by himself that a scream meant something wrong... 5/

        2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017

        ...but it cannot be the business of Society to bust people for lacking sparks of moral intuition! Society has to tell you what the laws are!

        5 replies 1 retweet 17 likes
        Show this thread
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Jonatan Pallesen‏ @jonatanpallesen 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        Ignorance of the law may be unavoidable in complex matters, not about "you should not rape".

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @jonatanpallesen

        You would not be able to reinvent every idea that important on your own. It is society’s job to have few enough laws to say that one aloud.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Jonatan Pallesen‏ @jonatanpallesen 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        No matter how few laws a country has, there will always be a large number of different ways to hurt other people. Kick, burn, rape, etc etc.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @jonatanpallesen

        Humans do have some ability to generalize. The 20 top failures of generalization like “But she’s my wife” could all be listed on one slide.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Jonatan Pallesen‏ @jonatanpallesen 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        ... Yes, exactly. So too many laws is not an important problem for this type of crime. (It may be for other types.)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @jonatanpallesen

        What I’m saying is that all the laws governing them should have been read aloud to them over a couple of days. Too many laws and you can’t.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Jonatan Pallesen‏ @jonatanpallesen 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        But you could read "don't hurt people" and 20 top failures of generalization. Done. (For that type of crime.)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @jonatanpallesen

        And if that had *actually been done* I’d be, “Sure, lock him up and throw away the key.” But *in fact* our Bronze Age Guy was told “Guess!”

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 3 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. The Lagrangian‏ @The_Lagrangian 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        this is a bad example for this argument b/c the law here is simple: all rape is illegal always, including in a marriage

        2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @The_Lagrangian

        How many centuries did it take for that simple idea to win? But yes, with fewer laws it would have been very easy to teach this one.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      4. The Lagrangian‏ @The_Lagrangian 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        again, this is a bad example for that argument- rape and murder laws are clearly on the top of the stack of things everyone needs to learn

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      5. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @The_Lagrangian

        Yeah. Except that if you took the real laws and taught them over 2 days, we’d have to admit that ignorance of the rest was a thing... 1/

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky @The_Lagrangian

        ...and only 30 seconds would elapse before somebody insisted that potato pricing had to be included so ignorance couldn’t be a defense.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      7. The Lagrangian‏ @The_Lagrangian 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @ESYudkowsky

        i mean if you want to go reductio ad absurdum, you're advocating that immigrants should be able to claim ignorance on any law

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      8. The Lagrangian‏ @The_Lagrangian 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @The_Lagrangian @ESYudkowsky

        so yes, we should simplify law- but also obvious that naturalization process should include when it is okay to rape people (never)

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      9. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 22 Oct 2017
        Replying to @The_Lagrangian

        I do think it’s reasonable to claim ignorance of a law you were not told about, or a demonstrably common comprehension failure not mentioned

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 10 more replies

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