what I'm starting to piece together here is that maybe the greatest thing a Cloistered Group can promise is "you will achieve great things the day you decide we are full of shit and tell us to fuck off"
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I think it's very important to distinguish between a Scene (welcoming, open, tolerant, encouraging, people doing their own thing) and a Cult and/or Cloistered Group (insular, coercive, there's some Great Leader, intolerant of criticism or deviation from The Plan)
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Mill is a "the family is the cloister" eg – which I think is ~somewhat~ limits the damage still, suicidal & depressed at 20, I wonder why
> asked himself whether the creation of a just society would actually make him happy. His heart answered "no"
https://twitter.com/MarkLutter/status/1448976577283428352 …pic.twitter.com/GMmTNVOjsn
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ok I'll now point at the thing that got me thinking about this so there's a group of people who tried to do a thing where you get "highly moldable young people" to "self-transform into Elon Musks" and I want to make the case that this is IMPOSSIBLE https://medium.com/@zoecurzi/my-experience-with-leverage-research-17e96a8e540b …pic.twitter.com/ozMQhjzN33
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regardless of what you think abt Elon he did not join such a group any "highly moldable young person" who joins a group hoping to become Elon (or whatever outlier you want – say, Prince, or Bob Dylan) will, imho, NEVER succeed bc outliers are the opposite of "highly moldable"
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if anything, you need to be a disagreeable mf like Martin Luther, to be willing to tell everyone around you to fuck off
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just imagine Elon or Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos (or Dylan, or Prince, or Gandhi, whoever you consider an outlier-tier hyperachiever) "sitting in many meetings in which (their) progress as a “self-debugger” was analyzed or diagnosed." it's the funniest fucking idea to me i'm sorry
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it's even funnier than thinking that going to business school will teach you how to start a business
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i've done lots of reading abt outsized accomplishment over the years – these people do have tutors, mentors, do apprenticeships, etc. but I think almost invariably the thing is that they have a strong inner fire, taste, a sense of sovereignty/autonomy, a refusal to be boxed in
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Replying to @visakanv
agree here, my first thoughts were abt Alexander the Great --tutoring for vague "greatness" but it wasn't done cultishly (screwy power/authority dynamics and isolation from other ideas) afaict
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same example and reasoning
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