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DanielMicay's profile
Daniel Micay
Daniel Micay
Daniel Micay
@DanielMicay

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Daniel Micay

@DanielMicay

Security researcher

Toronto
Joined December 2014

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    Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25

    These are completely conflicting opinions: 1) Closed source software with no obfuscation and all compiled code accessible in a controlled environment is substantially harder to audit 2) Publishing sources doesn't make it substantially easier for attackers to find vulnerabilities

    4:41 PM - 25 Mar 2018
    • 2 Retweets
    • 9 Likes
    • InFlagrante Delicto John Regehr Henry D Alexander Riccio Sinimalé Freddy Will Drewry Svetislav Pintorović Andy LoPresto
    2 replies 2 retweets 9 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25

        It's extremely hard to make the case that publishing sources makes it easier to find vulnerabilities when you're talking about simply stripping out comments and internal naming from Java / JavaScript code... Take a look at http://www.underhanded-c.org/_page_id_25.html … if you think sources are magic.

        1 reply 2 retweets 3 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25

        If you're trying to find an intentional backdoor, the developers are your adversaries. If you're looking at the sources they choose to publish, you're looking at the code in the format where they cleverly hid a vulnerability in a deniable way if they aren't total idiots.

        1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25

        Assuming your adversaries are idiots is always a bad move. It is not necessarily a good idea to even bother looking at the source code if you're looking for a backdoor. Imagine trying to find a backdoor in C sources by someone like @johnregehr with undefined behavior as a hobby.

        2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25

        Oh, and don't be so sure that reproducible builds where you're *highly* encouraged to use exactly the same (out-of-date!) toolchain as the adversaries is a great idea. AOSP/CopperheadOS/Chromium builds are reproducible. Is it a security feature? We wouldn't claim it to be one...

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        Show this thread
      6. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25

        Anyone that isn't a complete idiot isn't going to make a backdoor that isn't 100% deniable by being a completely plausible vulnerability. The best way to do it is leveraging a library or toolchain bug where it's not even a bug in the code written by the adversary...

        3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25

        How often do you run into library / toolchain bugs? Just pick one, trigger the same bug you triggered by accident and there's your backdoor. It's not even a bug in your code. It's not just completely deniable that you added a backdoor, it won't even appear to be your mistake.

        0 replies 5 retweets 5 likes
        Show this thread
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 25
        Replying to @DanielMicay

        Part is asymmetry in attack vs defense budgets & unpaid participants. Lack of source may make audit prohibitively expensive, but not substantially affect attackers, and...

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 25
        Replying to @RichFelker

        ...with open source you get a considerable amount of audit for free just by eyes dealing with building/bug reports/porting.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 25
        Replying to @RichFelker

        Whenever someone reports a program not working with musl, I almost always run across significant source level bugs while investigating.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25
        Replying to @RichFelker

        Most open source projects are developed by only a couple people are rarely if ever have anyone else looking at more than an API. It's not really helping defenders to have tens of millions of GitHub repositories.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25
        Replying to @DanielMicay @RichFelker

        For example, do you think it would be good or bad for your security to put all of your dotfiles without credentials on GitHub? You might have a glaring security hole in your configuration. Someone might point it out to you so you can fix it, or someone might exploit it.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25
        Replying to @DanielMicay @RichFelker

        Attackers often don't have a lot of resources. You might just make a troll angry on IRC or Twitter and they look through your profiles, GitHub repositories, etc. and find a mistake in a configuration file or some plugin / script you made that lets them exploit you.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25
        Replying to @DanielMicay @RichFelker

        Whether it's a net benefit is based on how helpful the sources are (very helpful for C, ridiculously helpful for C++, negligible for Java) and whether people actually end up using the sources to make the software more secure / robust (not the case for 99% of projects).

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Daniel Micay‏ @DanielMicay Mar 25
        Replying to @DanielMicay @RichFelker

        Rust sources are perhaps even more helpful than C++ sources since the code has so many layers of simple abstractions designed to be reliably stripped away by trivial compiler optimizations and they default to LTO (C++ abstractions are harder to strip away).

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 6 more replies

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