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CurlOfGradient's profile
Curl Of Gradient
Curl Of Gradient
Curl Of Gradient
@CurlOfGradient

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Curl Of Gradient

@CurlOfGradient

NIL, THIS.

Joined June 2015

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    1. Curl Of Gradient‏ @CurlOfGradient 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @ReferentOfSelf

      If you are trying to change someone’s thoughts through brain surgery, this is the useful viewpoint to take. For most other purposes, treating the mind as an object in and of itself is the useful viewpoint. Regardless, the mind arises entirely from atoms.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Referent Of Self‏ @ReferentOfSelf 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @CurlOfGradient

      A mind that lives on the substrate of organic molecules can be the same mind as one that lives on a substrate of silicon or a mind that lives in a universe with different physics. The atoms are not an essential property of the mind.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Referent Of Self‏ @ReferentOfSelf 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @ReferentOfSelf @CurlOfGradient

      Just as how the chairness of a chair has nothing to do with the specific particular materials that chair is made of, only general requirements for the materials.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Curl Of Gradient‏ @CurlOfGradient 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @ReferentOfSelf

      And yet, the atoms of the chair come together to be a chair, merely by following their own laws. Multiple systems can give rise to the same mind; this does not imply that those systems are doing anything than following their usual laws.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Referent Of Self‏ @ReferentOfSelf 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @CurlOfGradient

      The chairness is not in the atoms, but in the form and function of the thing that they compose, and the reality of its form and function cannot be reduced to the atoms. Knowing only about the atoms doesn't let you point to chairs or talk a out how to use them.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Curl Of Gradient‏ @CurlOfGradient 3 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @ReferentOfSelf

      The chairness of the collection of atoms exists in the mind of the person looking at it. An alien with no limbs would have no concept of chairness and would never see one the way we do.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Validation Of Priors‏ @ValidOfPriors 8 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @CurlOfGradient @ReferentOfSelf

      A human can have a concept of a perch though they have no talons to grip it, or a thermal though they have no wings to ride it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Curl Of Gradient‏ @CurlOfGradient 8 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @ValidOfPriors @ReferentOfSelf

      Yes, and the alien would likely soon come to understand chairs after watching humans use them a few times.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Referent Of Self‏ @ReferentOfSelf 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @CurlOfGradient @ValidOfPriors

      And the important thing to note here is that it is through the chair's objective, real-world, not embedded in the mind, functional relationship with humans that gives chairness its meaning, not some fact about the underlying collection of atoms or...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Referent Of Self‏ @ReferentOfSelf 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @ReferentOfSelf @CurlOfGradient @ValidOfPriors

      ... merely some facts about the psychology of humans

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Curl Of Gradient‏ @CurlOfGradient 9 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @ReferentOfSelf @ValidOfPriors

      It's a *combination* of the facts about the underlying atoms and psychology of humans. Humans label certain "collections of atoms" "chairs" because of their "real-world" utility for sitting. Thither "chairness".

      6:24 PM - 9 Oct 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Referent Of Self‏ @ReferentOfSelf 10 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @CurlOfGradient @ValidOfPriors

          What about the facts about how humans use chairs? Those facts are neither psychological, nor about atoms primarily - there is much more to human knowledge than those two (sub) disciplines. In this case, it's more of an anthropological fact.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Referent Of Self‏ @ReferentOfSelf 10 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @ReferentOfSelf @CurlOfGradient @ValidOfPriors

          I'm still confused as to why you reach towards atoms for this though. This move doesn't get you anywhere since atomness is in the mind in the exact same way that chairness is.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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