@C7RKY I don't think you were one of the 4 others John (I did look!) and I think you'll find the URL to Grimstone in the thread (not a long ruling to read).https://twitter.com/MikeStone2_EoL/status/956473191605723136 …
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@louise_austin12 Fundamentally, I'm with you - but did she effectively ask 'what flights could I take to holiday in South America?' instead of asking 'what flights could I take to holiday abroad?'.
I'm sure any half decent defence lawyer would try to make that argument, yes. But a patient may not always appreciate what's important to mention at the time. Knowing all the options & associated risks may in itself broaden their thinking. I'm eyeing your 'Lady Hale' tweet here.
There are quite a lot of half-decent lawyers out there - and, peculiar that lay EoL campaigners are often told by HCPs 'you need to ask a lawyer about that' when both sides of court cases seem to have lawyers!
Ha! Quite.
Then why - and this happens all the time - if you are trying to 'thrash out what the MCA must mean' with a nurse or a doctor, do they often throw that 'you'd need to ask a lawyer' line at you? @DrMarkTaubert @KitzingerCelia
Not sure I've ever done that, the MCA is pretty vague in a number of its wordings and definitions. Btw I quoted you in a talk to 60 GPs earlier Mike.
No, you have never done that Mark. But it does happen a lot, I assure you. By the way - I've just received something that I find deeply disturbing in an e-mail from the CQC (see bottom of https://www.dignityincare.org.uk/Discuss-and-debate/Dignity-Champions-forum/An-issue-with-ReSPECT-which-I-will-be-pointing-out-to-the-Public-Guardian/960/ …) The quote at the top of the JPG - 'bonkers'!pic.twitter.com/lD9WxZgxVH
I think Lady Hale's explanation in Montgomery https://www.supremecourt.uk/decided-cases/docs/UKSC_2013_0136_Judgment.pdf … is 'clearest' - '[the patient] is entitled to take into account her own values, her own assessment of the comparative merits (of offered interventions)'.pic.twitter.com/j2ZpgeCf7U
Its that 'the patient's own values' point - those values are not simply 'the clinical outcome' and describing 'a person's 'values'' is in my view surely harder than describing clinical prognoses? See also - 'related' - https://www.dignityincare.org.uk/Discuss-and-debate/Dignity-Champions-forum/My-reasons-are-my-own-it-is-entirely-up-to-me-whether-or-not-I-decide-to-share-them/870/ …
Should also add that now, as well as expecting to be told of all available treatment options that are of overall benefit (however marginal), I also enquire as to what options were deemed not to be of overall benefit. That in itself is an opinion & I may want a 2nd one of those.
Yes - I think it is 'all clinically-effective options' with a description of how effective each is: sometimes you get the feeling that doctors think it is 'the most effective option' (or, just the 'more effective' options).
I think you make an important point. The impression I'm left with is that some doctors think it's ok to just talk about the 'best' option as they see it. But what's best is an opinion open to potential bias anyway and 9c on the image above is plural - 'options'. For a reason imho
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