Bret Devereaux Twitterissä: "So the original tweet is simply wrong in a lazy, unambiguous way. There are interesting debates to be had over other questions, like if Achilles&Patroclus were intended to be lovers in the text of the Iliad, or the details of Greek attitudes towards homosexuality. 15/19"

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

...and wraps up with an anecdote from Philip II who having seen the band fall to a man at Chaeronea is said to have declared - if I may translate idiomatically - "Anyone who thinks these guys did or experienced anything disgraceful should die in a fire." 5/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

Now of course the fact that Philip has to say this (or Plutarch thinks he does) might suggest the degree of discomfort Plutarch has with this institution (c.f. Xenophon's discomfort with Spartan pederastic bonding, Xen. Lac. 2.12-14). 6/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

This isn't the place to get into Greek attitudes towards homosexuality and pederasty, but they were complex (by the by, Roman attitudes are, contra the original thread, very much *NOT* a good guide to Greek attitudes - they were very different!). 7/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

Plutarch isn't alone in this though. Polyaenus (2.5.1) gives an unambiguous report; the English translation you'll see reads that they were "devoted to each other by mutual obligations of love" but this is a rather circumspect way to read the Greek. 8/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

The Greek reads, "ὁ λόχος ἦν ἐρασταὶ καὶ ἐρώμενοι τριακόσιοι." "The lochos (unit) were 300 lovers and beloveds" - ἐρασταὶ and ἐρώμενοι are the same terms Plutarch uses and are the unambiguous technical terms for men in a physical homosexual relationship. 9/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

Athenaeus of Naucratis (13.78) also reports this. Once again, the public domain translations you'll find (Yonge: "For in the presence of his favourite, a man would chose to do anything rather than get the character of a coward") are rather less blunt than the Greek. 10/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

The Greek reads something closer to, "A lover, in the presence of his darling boy (παιδικῶν - it's an idiomatic use of παιδικός - adj. meaning 'boyish' but see the LSJ entry, A.III.2 for the substantive use meaning something like 'boyfriend' or 'darling')... 11/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

...would do anything rather than think himself to have been taken as a coward by his darling." To be clear, both 'lover' and 'darling' here are explicitly male, Greek being one of those languages with clear grammatical genders. 12/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

Athenaeus then provides the Sacred Band of Thebes (he thinks it was founded by Epaminondas, not Gorgidas) as an example of this principle in action. 13/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

Now it is true none of these sources are contemporary to the band itself; Plutarch is early second century, Polyaenus is mid/late-second century and Athenaeus is late-second/early-third century. But there's no alternative tradition here. 14/19

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Bret Devereaux‏ @BretDevereaux 21. kesäk.

So the original tweet is simply wrong in a lazy, unambiguous way. There are interesting debates to be had over other questions, like if Achilles&Patroclus were intended to be lovers in the text of the Iliad, or the details of Greek attitudes towards homosexuality. 15/19

12.56 - 21. kesäk. 2021