like, more time practicing fighting wolves, less time practicing the 18 disctinct motions involved in drawing your sword
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this series by
@BretDevereaux seems to have answered my questions in terms of sparta! seems like despite having really harsh violent and brutal military indoctrination, there wasn't anything resembling the fine-grained "discipline" foucault talks about https://twitter.com/FredRKozlowski/status/1390405705790803969?s=20 …pic.twitter.com/WxABbi9Ol2
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i guess next i'd be interested in seeing how roman training compares! Bret points to it being a lot more complex and more strategic, though i wonder if the power structure of this discipline will look like the examples foucault uses from the 18th century
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@BretDevereaux do you have recommendations for a short survey on the details of roman military training? specifically, what drills were like, how they were managed/administered, how was "discipline and order" maintained? i'm trying to get the flavor of the power/control used2 vastausta 0 uudelleentwiittausta 1 tykkäysNäytä tämä ketju -
Vastauksena käyttäjille @natural_hazard ja @BretDevereaux
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_reforms … Gibbon goes into some detail I think - a lot of discipline was about constructing fortifications quickly
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @ben_r_hoffman ja @natural_hazard
Avoid Gibbon on this point. Our understanding of the Roman army has meaningfully improved and changed substantially since 1789.
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(In practice, avoid Gibbon on essentially all points. Decline and Fall was important in terms of the development of the field of Roman history, but isn't really current or accurate on much of any of its main arguments.)
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux ja @natural_hazard
What's a specific example of something relevant I'm likely to be mistaken about by reading Gibbon?
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @ben_r_hoffman ja @natural_hazard
Oh boy. Gibbon's argument about Christianity leading to the fall of the empire is a mess and not taken seriously by historians. His moralizing discussion of civic virtue is likewise the result of an overly credulous reading of the sources.
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Gibbon seems blissfully unaware that the Romans had been complaining about the decline of their civic morals since the days of Cato the Elder during the Middle Republic some 650 years before the empire fell and instead takes them all at their word.
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His understanding of the late Roman army and the place of the Foederati in it is, as you'd expect, centuries out of date. Archaeology has done a lot to change our understanding of some of these institutions and their changes, but by virtue of writing before...
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...the entire discipline of archaeology existed, Gibbon is robbed of the ability to take advantage of it. That also robs him of the ability to make any sense of the economic decline of the empire because, relying on the literary sources, he doesn't know when it happened...
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...which is a real problem because it seems to have begun under the Five Good Emperors in the second century, which also places it well before widespread Christian influence on Roman culture.
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