This apropos of arguing that English 'courage' isn't quite the same as Latin's fortis or virtus, or Greek's ἀνδρεία (or any other number of similarly translatable words), despite the fact that in a translation you will, of course, read 'courage' for those words. 2/8
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So you end up arguing in circles because the retort comes back, "but these are all forms of courage." But they're not! The Greeks didn't have modern English 'courage' in mind forming ἀνδρεία and senses of courage are non-overlapping. 3/8
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I give some concrete examples of this in last week's post, here: https://acoup.blog/2021/02/05/collections-the-universal-warrior-part-iia-the-many-faces-of-battle/ … Noting how different forms of bravery/courage required literally opposite actions (and the emotional predicates to those actions). 4/8
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All of which is to say, in a way, the very act of translating a text can create a misleading impression of its universality - some of the cultural specificity is erased unless you remember that the translation isn't the text, but merely a flat representation of it. 5/8
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Just the very act of rendering a text into English makes it seem more Anglophone - more friendly to the broad complex of primarily English-speaking cultures - than it may actually be (and the same of course for any other language). 6/8
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @BretDevereaux
And the reverse too! Some translations of English to German sound/read just _wrong_ – the concepts just don’t travel well across the translation gap.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @cortexfutura ja @BretDevereaux
Total thread-jacking: I have been meaning to ask from native speakers and just continue to forget. In English: the Liberty/Freedom dichotomy. In French: not so easily separated. In ???? Feel free to ignore
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @calhistorian ja @BretDevereaux
Same in German, both are translated as “Freiheit”.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @cortexfutura ja @BretDevereaux
It is an interesting historical dilemma on my end trying to explain and trace the evolution of "English liberty" in the context and evolution of "American liberty" -- juxtaposed by the American concept of "freedom" (<- which is bastardized to all hell).
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @calhistorian ja @cortexfutura
In Greek, you have eleutheria vs. autonomia, both of which sometimes end up as 'freedom.' But eleutheria is something more like 'independence' - it is the state of not being subordinated (free as not meaning slave), whereas autonomia is 'self-rule.'
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So a Greek state under Persian rule might have autonomia if it can make its own laws, but not eleutheria. And neither translates quite to the Latin 'libertas' which of course gives us 'liberty' which also meant 'freedom' as opposed to 'slavery' but freedom within bounds...
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...rather than the absolute independence of eleutheria. A person with libertas might still be a client, or owe some greater duty to an individual or a state as a matter of right behavior. This difference in understanding plays a role in the Roman treatment of Greece.
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