"Liable for military service" Which meant what...all able bodied men? (yes that was the statute and apparent use in many kingdoms) Nice fraught term you've found there.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @marauder2048 ja @notabattlechick
No, liability for military service was very rarely conditioned only on being able-bodied in the Middle Ages, but there is a link to "militia". No, hardly a regular usage for "milites" legally or historically. Not really, when "soldiers" comes from "armed man for hire"
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @ProfPaul_J ja @notabattlechick
It's totally untrue. The entire English state dating back to Anglo Saxon kingdoms had these provisions. Same with the Crusader states. They dominate the literature. It can be about anyone connected to the nobili that the "historians" of the period deigned to write about.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @marauder2048 ja @notabattlechick
You should try to be more careful with language.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @ProfPaul_J ja @notabattlechick
You should try to familiarize yourself with the period. Unlike antiquity you can't hide your questionable analysis and conclusions behind the fragmentary nature of the sources.
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And you're totally cool with 'milites' covering armed mariners despite the fact that it rarely did in the middle ages?
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It means exactly that in some of the Roman sources, which seems relevant to our understanding of the term. Cf. Plaut. Capt. 1.2.61 Angry certainty is almost always unbecoming in a historian.
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"Angry certainty" ....yet you're certain that it was used in the way you claim when it's abundantly clear it's not. Which is more probable: unified consistent usage amongst authors who pretended to know more Latin than they did or fragmentation?
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In as much as I am staring at the entry in the Lewis & Short which reads "a soldier in sea-service, a marine" yes, I am pretty confident. The thing about a philological question like this is it takes only one example to demonstrate a usage.
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The usage in Roman times for sailor was clearly different than what they used for ground pounder or naval infantry. So no unified term then or now. Certainly not by the medieval period.
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Er. 1) The term is clearly unified in Plautus and consequently the (small) corpus of old Latin. 2) The Romans certainly do not have a clearly different sense of 'legions on boats' than 'legions on ground.' They have a word for 'rowers' (which is how they might use nautae)...
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux, @marauder2048 ja
...but 'rowers' or 'sailors' are not marines. If the question is 'does milites cover sailors in the ancient world' - by and large no? But actually stay tuned for some interesting research by
@marquanimous on the Greek context at some point.2 vastausta 0 uudelleentwiittausta 2 tykkäystä -
Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux, @marauder2048 ja
But the question was 'does it cover marines.' It does cover marines. Again, the reference is provided and the matter settled. In the medieval context, I have a hard time imagining at a king's milites become much lower status nautae the moment they're on a boat?
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