This. The Roman Peace was neither Roman, nor peaceful.https://twitter.com/jpnudell/status/1266148060725420038 …
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @MykeCole
Yes, but it is possible for the Pax Romana to not be terribly peaceful (by modern standards) and at the same time represent a reduction in overall levels of violence. Just going by demographic evidence, it very likely was the latter - a relative, if not absolute, peace.
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @BretDevereaux
Is this anecdotal or supported by statistical analysis of data? Was the Julian-Trajanic period numerically less violent than the Republican or Marian eras?
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @MykeCole
Nature of the evidence makes statistical comparisons of deaths impossible - too many battles without casualty reports, or where casualty reports are unreliable. But use militarization (% pop under arms per year) as a proxy, and yes, supported by data.
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @BretDevereaux
That may be a misleading indicator because another thing that progresses over time is the amount of sq. ft. of ground that can be held by a single warrior.
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @MykeCole
I mean, we're not looking at major organizational or technological changes in the first 2 centuries CE though? So if fewer soldiers are holding more ground, it is because violence is being 'pushed out' to the frontier, creating zones of peace where they didn't exist before.
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @BretDevereaux
Yeah, totally concur, but it also supports my point that % of pop. under arms isn’t really a meaningful metric. The question has to be tackled holistically. Good thesis for a book, Bret, if you want to write it. I bet it would sell.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @MykeCole ja @BretDevereaux
I've been enjoying the conversation, am am open to a lot of Bret's nuanced position, though % under arms strikes me as a lot like Pinker's argument in Better Angels. But that is rather different from how modern culture usually receives the absolute claims of Augustan propaganda.
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Agreed! There's a tendency to read Augustan propaganda uncritically, with no concern for what the Roman Empire might have felt like 'on the ground. As for Pinker, cf. Gat, War in Human Civilization, for - I'd argue - a better version of the thesis.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux ja @MykeCole
Excellent, added to my reading list. I found Pinker's book...frustrating.
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Gat is narrower and more careful in his argument, focusing on war over general violence and also more sharply realist (in the IR sense) in his thinking. He also 'shows his work' better on establishing violence levels pre-state.
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