I should add that I'm not disputing infantry fighting with heavy loads. I mean, thureophoroi were fast-moving 'medium' infantry, and the thureos is freakin' heavy. But they pretty clearly *did* that. My guess is just that they were plenty tired afterwards.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux, @FlintDibble ja
The common thureos in the Hellenistic period is not particularly heavy at all, unless you're talking about the really big ones (as big or bigger than the Roman scutum). But most thureophoroi were handling a pretty light shield.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @ProfPaul_J, @BretDevereaux ja
I did not find the thureos to be light after even five minutes of serious fighting in close. I kept having to straighten my arm and support it with my knee because it felt like my shoulder was on fire. But I’m aggressive as fuck.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @MykeCole, @BretDevereaux ja
What thureos were you using? But yes, aggressiveness will affect that sort of thing.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @ProfPaul_J, @BretDevereaux ja
I *believe* it was built to historical spec. It was considerably smaller than a scutum, probably as wide as armpits and going from above the knee to my throat. I kept chafing my wrist on the inside of the boss, and solved it by tying a bit of felt around it.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @MykeCole, @ProfPaul_J ja
We're not as super-well informed about the design of the Thureos, esp. thickness as we'd like. Most reconstructions assume that the thureos follows the thickness pattern of the scutum. Thing is, the scutum is a lot thinner on the edges than in the core...
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux, @MykeCole ja
...(Plb. 6.23.2). The Kasr-al-Harit shield is normally the guideline for that sort of thing. But I suspect that means, if you make a Hellenistic thureos as thick as the scutum in the center, you don't actually save so much weight by making it shorter and narrower...
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux, @MykeCole ja
...because those parts of the scutum are the thinnest already and thus don't have the bulk of the mass. So while it ought to be lighter, I'd guess it's not massively so - and taking 20% of the mass off of the scutum still leaves you with a 10-12lb shield.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux, @MykeCole ja
Yes, I'd guess approximately 10lbs might be about right. Maybe a little less, maybe a little more, varying upon thickness, method of construction, material, and actual size/shape.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @ProfPaul_J, @MykeCole ja
In an ideal world, we'd have for Greek and Roman shields what we have for Gallic ones (also Iberian caetra) - a few sets of bosses where the rivets still connect to the handles, giving a fixed, clean way to measure thickness at the core.
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NMB N 2902 (see Lejars, La Tene: un site, un mythe 3 (2013)), a Middle La Tene shield boss, still has the handle attached by the original rivet to the wing of the original boss; the wood would have originally been 9-10mm thick at that point.
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