I’m fascinated by powerful people who are incapable of accountability. Dawkins indefensibly advocated for eugenics. In the wake of that backlash, he is legit incapable of self-analysis. The focus immediately shifts to “Twitter nastiness” instead of WHY the backlash occurred.https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1229366421081247744 …
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @MykeCole
No he didn’t man. That’s not at all what he wrote. I’m not a huge fan of his, but let’s not immolate our own credibility by willfully misunderstanding him.
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This is my point. Even if he had an argument that he wanted to make, he clearly fumbled the delivery. He can’t even manage to say “I stand by my point, but I could have delivered it better. Let me try this again.”
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @MykeCole
I agree with that, but he did not "indefensibly advocate" for eugenics.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @theDHXavier ja @TheDaveMadden
Yeah, he did. I’m fine with us disagreeing on that point, but I don’t think it’s misreading his tweet to say he advocated for it. I also don’t think it’s a stretch to say that position is indefensible. The backlash isn’t occurring in a vacuum. People are angry for a good reason.
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @MykeCole
He explicitly says that we shouldn’t do it and that it’s would be morally reprehensible. I’m curious how you square that with advocating for it?
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @theDHXavier ja @TheDaveMadden
The issue I take (and I think most take) is “it works.” Don’t you read that as advocacy? Also, it isn’t true. Eugenics in any form pretty much always has unforeseen consequences, often disastrous. We see this in agriculture, specialized pets, etc.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @MykeCole ja @TheDaveMadden
I also feel the need to note that eugenicist societies have not, in fact, generally been successful! Sparta, when viewed critically, underwhelms (see: https://acoup.blog/2019/08/16/collections-this-isnt-sparta-part-i-spartan-school/ … and following) and the German 'supermen,' you know...lost the war.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux ja @TheDaveMadden
Ah, but I don’t agree that Sparta was necessarily eugenicist (in comparison to the ancient general practice of infanticide). I believe this is Plutarch’s mythmaking inflated by laconophilia. It’s one of the major points I make in THE BRONZE LIE.
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That's a fair position to take. It boils down to an unanswerable question about the reliability of sources that we have few ways to check. Myself, I tend to see Plut.'s narrative as broadly consistent with the priorities in Xen., on the assumption the latter is white-washing.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @BretDevereaux ja @TheDaveMadden
I’m lucky enough to have had a few one-on-one’s with Stephen Hodkinson, and he’s really brought me around on this stuff. He’s got a fantastic command of the sources in minute detail.
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2 cents: I suspect Sparta was a bit more eugenicist than their contemporaries even while mistrusting the sources. But while eugenicism sparked this conversation, I'd suggest other structural issues and changes around the Aegean had more to do with its decline than that.
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