...dissociated from pain itself. It’s also interesting that when innocuous, unpleasant somatosensory stimuli are salience-matched to noxious ones based on this definition, they elicit statistically indistinguishable brain maps (using univariate stats).
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Replying to @massihmoayedi @benosaka and
I'm not particularly convinced by that 'salience matching' procedure, or the conclusion that because two stimuli are rated equally and have univariate overlap = similar representations.
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Replying to @micahgallen @benosaka and
I don’t think salience itself is a useful construct or measure. I do believe that to find pain specific brain activity, you need to somehow account for the saliency of a stimulus. I think the point made by
@kren27,@NocionsLab, and others is that the control stimuli typically ...1 reply 0 retweets 1 like -
Replying to @massihmoayedi @micahgallen and
used are not adequate to identify pain specific activity.
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Replying to @massihmoayedi @benosaka and
A lot of issues here. I think the obsession with 'pain-specificity' is a misguided holdover from naively assuming a labeled line account of nociception tells you something particularly useful about pain. I doubt that very much - no such thing as 'pure nociception'.
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Replying to @micahgallen @massihmoayedi and
For one, we know that these signals are already being combined with other modalities at a spinal level. For another, I believe any useful computational model of subjective pain would assert that 'salience' is a fundamental component process of the pain itself.
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Replying to @micahgallen @massihmoayedi and
You can't 'subtract the salience' if pain IS salience. Salience isn't just pure stimulus intensity - it's the motivational significance of the stimulus for the agent's goals and self-preservation.
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Replying to @micahgallen @massihmoayedi and
You can disentangle salience and pain, in the sense that a stimulus can be salient without being painful (e.g. a very loud sound, a very bright flash, etc.). I do agree that pain is intrinsically salient though
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Replying to @70Hertz @micahgallen and
I also agree you cannot ask subjects to rate “salience” (although some colleagues do). I generally ask for intensity ratings, which is more straightforward. And I think you could argue that in general, the higher the intensity, the higher the salience
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Replying to @70Hertz @massihmoayedi and
Definitely. Also, I mentioned Rebecca's work because she's come up with some brilliant behavioral techniques to measure salience in emotion perception. I think these can definitely be adapted to grrat benefit in pain research.
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Ha ha I wish I could claim more credit, but I have borrowed a number of approaches from psychophysics to more precisely map attentional capture by affective salience, riding on the coattails of @supergrrl007 and Adam Anderson.
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Replying to @BecketTodd @micahgallen and
/2 Then control for visual salience due to low level features. My philosophy is to always keep a vision scientist/psychophysicist close. And yes combine with subjective ratings and now computational models to triangulate as well!
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