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BagelDaughter's profile
Oatmeal Agitante
Oatmeal Agitante
Oatmeal Agitante
@BagelDaughter

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Oatmeal Agitante

@BagelDaughter

Preoccupied person.

Joined May 2011

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    1. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      But why would the odds of being the clone be 50:50? Where were any of you getting that idea from?

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    2. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      Isn't it likely that differences in the physical implementations of the two brains would have some effect on the odds?

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    3. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      If there were *two* synchronised copies of the prototype brain acting out exactly the same process, in front of you, would you still expect it to be 50:50. No, you would expect the odds of being one of the clones to be 2:1.

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    4. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      What if you smooshed those two synthetic brains together so that they were one object with twice as many neurons? What if the other brain was just heavier, or used more energy? Doesn't it seem likely that these things might lead to a greater magnitude of subjective existence?

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    5. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      (And if it seems likely that something would raise the odds, does it not, then, raise the odds?)

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    6. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      But how *would* those variations in physical implementation effect the odds? We have no way of determining that empirically! This is the mystery that so many of our friends have denied, and I don't think we can deny it any more!

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    7. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      Here, we have an example of a plausible scenario in which an agent's survival is contingent on making a prediction about subjectivity's relation to matter. That means that the concept of subjective measure is not a spook, it is something we *must* coherently account for.

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    8. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      Metaphysicians call the degree to which any physical system experiences its existence, "anthropic measure". I have been calling the difficulty of estimating anthropic measure from matter "the anthropic measure concentration problem."

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    9. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      It seems intractable, but my current heuristic is `relative measure = (mass-energy*integrated information)/entropy`

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    10. faun‏ @makoConstruct Nov 7
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      I include mass as a measure of quantity of existence. I include integrated information and negentropy as a way to account for the otherwise improbable coincidence of finding ourselves in the vanishingly small subset of matter that happens to be sapient flesh.

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      Oatmeal Agitante‏ @BagelDaughter 18h18 hours ago
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      Replying to @makoConstruct

      I think a critique of this thought experiment would involve arguing that the two copies running in the same piece of hardware do not amount to any additional anthropic measure, because they do not grow the surface area of ways the self could affect/be-affected-by the world

      4:32 AM - 8 Nov 2019
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        2. faun‏ @makoConstruct 11h11 hours ago
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          Replying to @BagelDaughter

          I've been calling this "count theory". Our experience of an agent depends only on its count, but the internal physical nature might care about other things. It doesn't seem *too* incoherent, but, hm, here's a challenge:

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        3. faun‏ @makoConstruct 11h11 hours ago
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          Replying to @makoConstruct @BagelDaughter

          There are two synced brains. A switch is flicked that ands them both to the same body, or to two different bodies. Does their measure double and halve when the switch is flicked?

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        2. Oatmeal Agitante‏ @BagelDaughter 18h18 hours ago
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          Replying to @BagelDaughter @makoConstruct

          I guess you would argue this is the integrated information part, but ignores the mass-energy part?

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        3. faun‏ @makoConstruct 11h11 hours ago
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          Replying to @BagelDaughter

          In LW slack, cadillion and I arrived at that. I think something like that is necessary.. a scaling law. Or else we would be the china brain instead of the citizens.

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        4. End of conversation

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