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BRIAN_____'s profile
Brian Smith
Brian Smith
Brian Smith
@BRIAN_____

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Brian Smith

@BRIAN_____

Code farmer. Security, crypto, performance, networking, usability. Rust, C++, C, Haskell, DSLs, etc. *ring*, webpki, crypto-bench, mozilla::pkix.

Honolulu & San Francisco
briansmith.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ 1 Nov 2014
      Replying to @BRIAN_____

      @kyhwana @tqbf They said they couldn't find a proof and implied (IIUC) a little that truncation may not be necessary every place it is used.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Thomas H. Ptacek‏ @tqbf 1 Nov 2014
      Replying to @BRIAN_____

      @BRIAN_____ @kyhwana OTOH: truncation of MACs is a basic design feature of most MAC constructions, right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ 1 Nov 2014
      Replying to @tqbf

      @tqbf @kyhwana In the abstract, they say they are aiming for a formal proof for the protocol, so they need a more formal statement of that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Trevor Perrin‏ @trevp__ 1 Nov 2014
      Replying to @BRIAN_____

      @BRIAN_____ @tqbf @kyhwana truncated PRF is still a PRF, HMAC is a PRF, PRFs are MACs, this is trivial.

      1 reply 2 retweets 3 likes
    5. Marsh Ray‏ @marshray 1 Nov 2014
      Replying to @trevp__

      @trevp__ @brian_____ @kyhwana @tqbf It used to be considered an open question whether truncated md5/sha1 was ok. Nist fixed that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ 1 Nov 2014
      Replying to @marshray

      @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf You are all agreeing with them. Their paper said they couldn't find a proof, but NIST said it was OK.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Trevor Perrin‏ @trevp__ 1 Nov 2014
      Replying to @BRIAN_____

      @BRIAN_____ @marshray @kyhwana @tqbf I just gave you the proof! It's obviously secure if you believe well known proofs that hmac is a prf.

      2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
    8. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ 1 Nov 2014
      Replying to @trevp__

      @trevp__ @marshray @kyhwana @tqbf I responded on the mailing list: https://moderncrypto.org/mail-archive/messaging/2014/001034.html …

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Marsh Ray‏ @marshray 2 Nov 2014
      Replying to @BRIAN_____

      @BRIAN_____ @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2104#section-5 … "A well-known practice with msg authentication codes is to truncate the output"

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ 2 Nov 2014
      Replying to @marshray

      @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf Nobody's arguing that. Your lonk is a stronger argument against TextSecure's truncation than the paper's.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ 2 Nov 2014

      @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf Also, I don't have a problem with the truncation. Just surprised that nobody bothers to point to a proof.

      2:23 PM - 2 Nov 2014
      7 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Justin Troutman‏ @justintroutman 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @BRIAN_____

          @BRIAN_____ @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf Once you assume the underlying compression function is a PRF, you assume the rest from there.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. yan‏ @bcrypt 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @justintroutman

          @justintroutman @BRIAN_____ @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf don't most HMAC security proofs have to assume underlying comp. fn is a PRF?

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Justin Troutman‏ @justintroutman 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @bcrypt

          @bcrypt @BRIAN_____ @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf And by "crunk Asian", Siri means "truncation".

          0 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        5. End of conversation
        1. Trevor Perrin‏ @trevp__ 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @BRIAN_____

          @BRIAN_____ @marshray Truncated PRF is a PRF, HMAC is a PRF, PRFs are MACs, eg http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-01440-6_10 … or http://spark-university.s3.amazonaws.com/stanford-crypto/slides/05-integrity-v2-annotated.pdf …

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. Justin Troutman‏ @justintroutman 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @BRIAN_____

          @BRIAN_____ @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf I think you'll enjoy reading this paper by Rogaway: http://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/papers/modes.pdf …

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Justin Troutman‏ @justintroutman 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @BRIAN_____

          @BRIAN_____ @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf The idea there is that you can't identify internal collisions in the output anymore.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Justin Troutman‏ @justintroutman 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @BRIAN_____

          @BRIAN_____ @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf Although there's no proof, truncation may actually improve security against birthday attacks.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Justin Troutman‏ @justintroutman 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @BRIAN_____

          @BRIAN_____ @marshray @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf AFAIK, there's no proof for AEAD modes like there is for HMAC.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Marsh Ray‏ @marshray 2 Nov 2014
          Replying to @BRIAN_____

          @BRIAN_____ @trevp__ @kyhwana @tqbf That RFC cites a paper that looks like it might contain a proof, but I didn't find the text online.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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