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BRIAN_____'s profile
Brian Smith
Brian Smith
Brian Smith
@BRIAN_____

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Brian Smith

@BRIAN_____

Code farmer. Security, crypto, performance, networking, usability. Rust, C++, C, Haskell, DSLs, etc. *ring*, webpki, crypto-bench, mozilla::pkix.

Honolulu & San Francisco
briansmith.org
Joined April 2008

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    Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ Sep 14

    Should package updates be downloaded over a secure transport (e.g. HTTPS) or not? The most likely transport-level failure is that the download will fail, e.g. middlebox blocked it, bad TLS config. Thus, I recommend trying both and not relying on transport later security at all.

    1:26 PM - 14 Sep 2018
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    • Arvid E. Picciani Benjamin Fry 🐞🔫🦀=⚙️ Vincent Lynch Jan Andre Ikenmeyer Uncarved Bitmap
    6 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      1. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ Sep 14

        Also, in the past every threat model we had for package updates included threats and modes of operation that transport-layer security cannot protect against, e.g. version downgrade. Of course, if you rely on package signing, your solution for it has to be correct and safe.

        1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
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      2. Devdatta Akhawe‏ @frgx Sep 14
        Replying to @BRIAN_____

        Will your app work if you can't do TLS?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ Sep 14
        Replying to @frgx

        An update can fix broken TLS if the update isn't using the same broken TLS stack.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Devdatta Akhawe‏ @frgx Sep 14
        Replying to @BRIAN_____

        But update can also wait till you get home etc and on a better network?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ Sep 14
        Replying to @frgx

        It won't help if the machine is usually/always on the bad network or if the problem is not the network but your application (e.g. TLS key pinning or CA configuration).

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Devdatta Akhawe‏ @frgx Sep 17
        Replying to @BRIAN_____

        Would you say this example is a good exemplar of the defense value of TLS? https://justi.cz/security/2018/09/13/alpine-apk-rce.html …

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. End of conversation
      1. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk Sep 14
        Replying to @BRIAN_____

        When we designed Windows Update we decided to build for HTTP for this and other reasons. Today however I think I would not consider building a online update system without HTTPS.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      2. Julien Vehent‏ @jvehent Sep 14
        Replying to @BRIAN_____

        Transport should be irrelevant, IMO. It's technically impractical to distribute blobs at scale while requiring end-to-end TLS. We need to trust CDNs and sign through a separate mechanism to protect from a compromise of the distribution infrastructure.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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      2. Fotis‏ @fotisl Sep 14
        Replying to @BRIAN_____

        It depends on your threat model and the guarantees you want. Don't forget that TLS doesn't just provide integrity but confidentiality too. Do you want malicious actors to know what you have installed?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Fotis‏ @fotisl Sep 14
        Replying to @fotisl @BRIAN_____

        Furthermore, there are other factors you may have to consider. Do you have keys baked in your hardware? Do you have the ability as a vendor to store the signing keys in HSMs?

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Ian McKellar, Immigrant‏ @ian Sep 14
        Replying to @BRIAN_____

        I have so many feels.

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