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AustenAllred's profile
Austen Allred
Austen Allred
Austen Allred
Verified account
@AustenAllred

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Austen AllredVerified account

@AustenAllred

CEO @LambdaSchool (YC S17): A CS education that's free until you get a job. I have made remarks that I do not agree with.

San Francisco, CA
lambdaschool.com
Joined December 2010

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    Austen Allred‏Verified account @AustenAllred Aug 18

    Austen Allred Retweeted Zaid Farooqui

    I love seeing when people start out teaching with Java. “OK so write ‘public’, don’t worry about why it’s too complicated for now, ok now write ‘void’, again too complicated we’ll get into that later in the semester, now on top of your enter key there’s this squiggly bracket...”https://twitter.com/zaid/status/1030714309112807424 …

    Austen Allred added,

    Zaid Farooqui @zaid
    Instead of switching to something like Python, AP actually switched to Java from C++ in my senior year in HS in 2005. 🤦‍♂️ I wonder from time to time how much damage this single decision must have done in terms of DISCOURAGING high schoolers to take up programming. https://twitter.com/chr1sa/status/1023251302707388416 …
    6:40 AM - 18 Aug 2018
    • 19 Retweets
    • 144 Likes
    • amusedbbq Joan G.E. David King 🔥 John Miles Noman Siddiqui as co goes Djames Ali Spittel 💁 Regina☃️
    13 replies 19 retweets 144 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Snorey Dude‏ @snoreydude Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        You could omit the “public” totally and “void” has a simple explanation (“the function doesn’t return anything”) 🤷‍♂️

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Tweet unavailable
      4. Austen Allred‏Verified account @AustenAllred Aug 18
        Replying to @snoreydude

        Yeah but what if you don’t know what a function is or returns? Day one is inevitably confusing

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Snorey Dude‏ @snoreydude Aug 19
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        Oh, I guess for getting to “hello world” the root problem with Java is that everything has to be a class, which by itself is hard to explain and also forces dealing with what you brought up (“public” and “void”).

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Austen Allred‏Verified account @AustenAllred Aug 19
        Replying to @snoreydude

        Yes

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Des Traynor‏Verified account @destraynor Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        I attempted a PhD in Computer Science Education, I studied how students learn, and I really blame a lot of problems on Java. It starts you off programming by *rote-learning* things you don’t understand. An average student can’t explain 80% of the (correct) program they produce.

        3 replies 0 retweets 18 likes
      3. Des Traynor‏Verified account @destraynor Aug 18
        Replying to @destraynor @AustenAllred

        I’ve seen students pace hallways pre exams saying things like “okay it’s public static void main open-roundy-bracket string with a capital S, a-r-g-s square brackets then close roundy-bracket then squiggly brackets, then code”

        1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. Shriya Nevatia‏ @shriyanevatia Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        I hated that so much when we learned C++ ☹️ Just tell me what things mean!!!

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. David Jankoski‏ @leleedavid Aug 19
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        I had the same experience. We got Scheme as intro and most of us liked it, then switched to Java and it just killed all the joy. Public static void main - before you could even say hello world

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Tawfic A.Fatah‏ @tawficFatah Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        yep, I've argued against it before. One of the courses I've TA'ed in the past was an intro CS course that used Java. Most common things I've said: "don't worry about it", "we'll discuss this later in the course". I didn't like myself for doing that 🙃

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. as co goes‏ @fcpcolo Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        I couldn’t sell my intro to C text book back to the school because I had drooled too much into it from falling asleep into it everytime I’d try and read it.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. New conversation
      2. Jamie Edwards‏ @jmedwards Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        I like the way @BristolUni taught CS in 2005. Initially started with C to get to grips with how computers actually worked. Then, we were taught Java, Haskell and C simultaneously (each coursework done 3 times), so we didn't get mentally wedded to one programming model.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Dmitri Grabov  ♠‏ @dmitrigrabov Aug 18
        Replying to @jmedwards @AustenAllred @BristolUni

        I did an MSc there at that time. Those folks did it right

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. End of conversation
      1. Thwiv‏ @Thwiv Aug 19
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        I mean, it's a good lesson on abstracting away things you don't currently understand, which is important in software development

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Mark Sadowski‏ @masadowski Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        this is why I got out of eng shortly after two AP classes. We had AP Java AND C++ (in 2005). Was told to take both. Awful.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Nicky Hajal‏ @NickyHajal Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        Such a good point - I wonder which language has the least number of "Don't worry about that for now" moments while teaching.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. vijay swamidass‏ @vijayswamidass Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        Haha so true.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Andrés Cruz‏ @andres_cruz_ Aug 18
        Replying to @AustenAllred

        😅

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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