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AndresFreundTec's profile
Andres Freund (Tech)
Andres Freund (Tech)
Andres Freund (Tech)
@AndresFreundTec

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Andres Freund (Tech)

@AndresFreundTec

Postgres developer, working at Microsoft. Also: politics nerd, expat German in the US. Account for tech related things. For politics: @AndresFreundPol

San Francisco, CA
Joined August 2017

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    1. Magnus Hagander‏ @magnushagander 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @fujii_masao

      What feature would you actually look for in it? What does that api deliver that the new one doesn't?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @magnushagander @fujii_masao

      Easy scriptability? Seems to be the only advantage.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Magnus Hagander‏ @magnushagander 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @AndresFreundTec @fujii_masao

      It provides easy scriptable for unsafe scripts. It doesn't provide safe scriptability. We could probably improve a safe scripting interface, but it's not what we had before. Heck even an example of a safe script might help most people.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @magnushagander @fujii_masao

      Meh. It's considerably easer to script the new thing wrongly than the old thing. It's far from easy to script keeping a postgres connection open in the background, with proper error checking, than with the old interface. Both are obviously easy to get wrong.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Magnus Hagander‏ @magnushagander 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @AndresFreundTec @fujii_masao

      I agree the new one does not provide easy scriptability. I just don't agree the old one does, or does better.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @magnushagander @fujii_masao

      I mean obviously the old interface has issues around the system / script dying in the wrong moment, but I don't understand how having to keep a connection open doesn't increase difficulty.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Magnus Hagander‏ @magnushagander 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @AndresFreundTec @fujii_masao

      It does. Both are difficult to get right. One of them pretends to be easy and in exchange for it you get corrupt backups or a server that doesn't start. The other one is up front about the fact that it's difficult. (and we have an easy one, it's called pg_basebackup)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Magnus Hagander‏ @magnushagander 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @magnushagander @AndresFreundTec @fujii_masao

      And no it's not particularly hard to script with the new interface. Unless it a absolutely has to be in shellscript.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @magnushagander @fujii_masao

      Yea, but the reality is that shell-scriptability is a desirable goal, much as we dislike it from a dogmatic position. I think it was a mistake to not make this easier when the new interface was added.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Magnus Hagander‏ @magnushagander 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @AndresFreundTec @fujii_masao

      TBH, why? Mention a single platform that does shellscript, but does not do say python, perl, ruby, powershell, or any of the scripting languages that actually makes this easier. Why does it have to be shellscript?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 22 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @magnushagander @fujii_masao

      Because of practical reality, it's simply the case that lots of engineers end up writing shell scripts. Partially because it's much more concise, partially because most people speak "some" of it, which isn't the case for the other alternatives you list.

      2:52 PM - 22 Feb 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 22 Feb 2019
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          Replying to @AndresFreundTec @magnushagander @fujii_masao

          We implemented a user hostile design, and we should cop to it. Either argue that the price was worth it, or say that in hindsight it was wrong.

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Magnus Hagander‏ @magnushagander 22 Feb 2019
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          Replying to @AndresFreundTec @fujii_masao

          I agree that we did, well over 10 years ago. I agree the new one isn't less hostile, and we should provide a less hostile option (actually, we do, in pg_basebackup, but it's also less flexible). But that doesn't mean we should keep around the hostile *and* dangerous option.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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