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AndresFreundTec's profile
Andres Freund (Tech)
Andres Freund (Tech)
Andres Freund (Tech)
@AndresFreundTec

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Andres Freund (Tech)

@AndresFreundTec

Postgres developer, working at Microsoft. Also: politics nerd, expat German in the US. Account for tech related things. For politics: @AndresFreundPol

San Francisco, CA
Joined August 2017

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    1. Fujii Masao‏ @fujii_masao 10 Dec 2018
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      regarding bloat and fragmentation, if it's ensured that the long-running tx can access to only the table A, we can safely vacuum table B even while that tx is running? #pgconfasia

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Robert Haas‏ @robertmhaas 10 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @fujii_masao

      In theory, yes -- but we have no mechanism to prevent the long-running tx from accessing new tables. For example, suppose a PL/pgsql function tricky(int) is called. When $1 < 10000000, it accesses table A; else table B. So a new table could be accessed quite late.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Fujii Masao‏ @fujii_masao 10 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @robertmhaas

      yes, and I was thinking to prepare such a mechanism when I was involved in the system having long-running batch transaction. that didn't happen because it was successfully divided to several tx, though.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Robert Haas‏ @robertmhaas 10 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @fujii_masao

      I think it's quite a hard problem. I think you could have a PGPROC flag indicating that the transaction is prohibited from locking any new tables; if the flag is set, then query the lock manager to see which tables it already has locked. Might be expensive, though.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 10 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @robertmhaas @fujii_masao

      I think it'd be more promising to start vacuuming rows that are newer than the longrunning transaction, but already deleted. That'd not require the restriction of not accessing new tables in old transaction, which I don't see us exposing to SQL.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Robert Haas‏ @robertmhaas 10 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @AndresFreundTec @fujii_masao

      The trick there is the bookkeeping involved. You have to store snapshots (or something) in shared memory so you can identify what can be vacuumed, which requires a variable amount of storage, and makes testing each tuple a slower process.

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      Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 10 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @robertmhaas @fujii_masao

      It's not that much additional information. We already have xmin, if we additionally track xmax it'd be sufficient. Why isn't that sufficient / why do we need variable amounts of storage?

      11:50 PM - 10 Dec 2018
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        1. Andres Freund (Tech)‏ @AndresFreundTec 10 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @AndresFreundTec @robertmhaas @fujii_masao

          And sure, testing each tuple gets more expensive, but it'd be quite reasonable to add heuristics about how old a tuple has to be to use the more expensive methodology - in which case it'd be much more likely to be worth the resources.

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