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AlexandraErin's profile
Alexandra Erin
Alexandra Erin
Alexandra Erin
@AlexandraErin

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Alexandra Erin

@AlexandraErin

Alfie Award-Winning Author/Commentator She/Her Nonfiction: http://alexandraerin.substack.com  Fiction: http://patreon.com/alexandraerin  Query: blueauthor@alexandraerin.com

Hagerstown
patreon.com/AlexandraErin
Joined February 2007

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    Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

    *whispers* The point of "Challenge Day" isn't that might makes right, it is a ritual that blends ancient tradition with modern consensus building to ensure that the otherwise hereditary monarch of Wakanda must represents all of its people.

    8:42 AM - 6 Apr 2018
    • 81 Retweets
    • 315 Likes
    • Harry Hop JD Jesson Greg Bell Jasper RM Christine Slaughter Luciana Keil IntrepidVector Victor Von Doomscroll QV
    6 replies 81 retweets 315 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        If every single tribe had challenged T'Challa but then lost, this wouldn't prove him a strong leader, it would prove he's a weak one and maybe he'd rethink a thing or two. A wise king would then offer an olive branch, maybe expand the role of the council formally or informally.

        1 reply 7 retweets 137 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        That every tribe present at the initial asking declines to offer a challenge is not a sign that they don't have anyone strong enough to beat T'Challa, but that they endorse his leadership. That M'Baku challenges is because he doesn't and he wants it on record in an indelible way

        5 replies 9 retweets 214 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Alexandra Erin Retweeted GoAskAlice

        I mean, why wouldn't he have? He had an honest and sincere objection to T'Challa's rule.https://twitter.com/GoAskAlice67/status/982283296573816834 …

        Alexandra Erin added,

        GoAskAlice @GoAskAlice67
        Replying to @AlexandraErin
        Yeah but presumably had he won he'd have kept the throne himself.
        2 replies 2 retweets 111 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        My point here isn't that the challenge isn't real. It's that the whole ritual serves a wider and deeper purpose than "let the most brutal no-holds-barred fighter here rule the land".

        2 replies 1 retweet 142 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Alexandra Erin Retweeted GoAskAlice

        I've got no idea what your point is or how you think it relates to mine.https://twitter.com/GoAskAlice67/status/982284056992727046 …

        Alexandra Erin added,

        GoAskAlice @GoAskAlice67
        Replying to @AlexandraErin
        Oh, sure, but he was even more isolationist than even conventional Wakanda. It would have been disastrous.
        1 reply 0 retweets 49 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        My point is: Wakanda's whole deal is respecting ancient traditions while moving forward. The highly ritualized trial-by-combat aspect of Challenge Day is part of that. It gives the new monarch an immediate sort of feedback and helps counter the chances of an unpopular ruler.

        3 replies 3 retweets 122 likes
        Show this thread
      8. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Consider: if M'Baku had won, every tribe and any other incidentally eligible person would be able to challenge *him*. No one gets to be king just because they won a fight. An unpopular king could be fighting challenges left and right their whole reign.

        5 replies 6 retweets 121 likes
        Show this thread
      9. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        "They could just abolish the whole thing and have a democracy." Sure. But 1) We don't have a real glimpse of how democratic or undemocratic Wakanda actually is. I would guess each tribe has their own method for deciding who speaks for them in council.

        3 replies 5 retweets 97 likes
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      10. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        2) The monarch has a dual role as the literal physical protector of Wakanda, which means the physical challenge aspect has its own purpose. 3) Wakanda has been right there watching us "export democracy" this whole time. Would you be impressed?

        2 replies 8 retweets 157 likes
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      11. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        And while I grant that M'Baku could keep the throne, as his challenge is not *just* symbolic... I'm not convinced he would? He reveres what I (in my limited understanding) understand to be something a trickster figure in Hanuman, and he certainly has an impish streak.

        1 reply 3 retweets 73 likes
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      12. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        I think it would be perfectly in keeping for M'Baku's character if he beat T'Challa, proceeded with the ritual up to a point, then abruptly broke into a grin, asked why he would want to leave the splendor of the mountains to rule over the corruption of the city, and left.

        3 replies 7 retweets 115 likes
        Show this thread
      13. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Having made the point that he *could* take the throne, and that he *would* happily beat to death anybody they wanted to put on the throne that he thought unsuitable and who wouldn't yield, I'm not convinced he would be interested in actually ruling.

        3 replies 3 retweets 88 likes
        Show this thread
      14. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Again, don't take this as me saying the objection wasn't real, but a big part of the objection of the Jabari was that they had been taken for granted. Their isolation was taken as acquiescence to whatever greater Wakanda wanted to do.

        1 reply 3 retweets 87 likes
        Show this thread
      15. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Alexandra Erin Retweeted Dottie Dairymilk, Cow of Mystery

        Yeah. Or this.https://twitter.com/d_m_elms/status/982287292663345152 …

        Alexandra Erin added,

        Dottie Dairymilk, Cow of Mystery @viragoergosum
        Replying to @AlexandraErin
        Or his first order would be to find a man truly worthy of the rule this time and then he holds it only until they do. That’s why I figured he was there.
        2 replies 0 retweets 50 likes
        Show this thread
      16. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        M'Baku wasn't going there to lose and his initial refusal to yield means he was fully prepared to die to make his point, but he was ultimately there to make a point. Even if T'Challa killed him, the objection of the Jabari would be a HISTORIC asterisk on his rule.

        2 replies 2 retweets 74 likes
        Show this thread
      17. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Alexandra Erin Retweeted Aaron Homer  💉 ⏳

        You mean someone with no respect for the meaning of it came in and ignored the social norms and mores around it to just use the form as a means to seize power? I'm not sure, but I suspect that just might be possible with another type of political system.https://twitter.com/afhomer/status/982286974806515713 …

        Alexandra Erin added,

        Aaron Homer  💉 ⏳ @afhomer
        Replying to @AlexandraErin
        I really like this argument, but feel it is undercut by the fact that Killmonger was able to subvert the ritual so effectively.
        4 replies 16 retweets 172 likes
        Show this thread
      18. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Nuance is a thing, and Wakandan culture is *rife* with it. And that includes Challenge Day. The challenges ARE real. The form of the challenge IS binding. But it's not about people beating each other to death because that makes a great ruler. There's politics to the challenge.

        2 replies 3 retweets 92 likes
        Show this thread
      19. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        The best fighter in Wakanda could not necessarily sustain successive challenges from the champions of all the tribes. And all the challenges that come after (as Killmonger's example makes it clear that challenges are not limited to a single day).

        2 replies 1 retweet 60 likes
        Show this thread
      20. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Heck, the fact that challenges can come at any time but they gather ritualistically for a Challenge Day before the coronation and have each tribe declare (in most cases, we can infer) that they will not challenge is a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about, re: consensus.

        2 replies 1 retweet 75 likes
        Show this thread
      21. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Listen, we don't see it, but do you think T'Challa's closest advisers (I'm thinking here of his mother, who has gone through this before) didn't meet with representatives from the (lowland) tribes to get a feel for where they were, and what might make them feel less challenging?

        1 reply 1 retweet 69 likes
        Show this thread
      22. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        There comes a point in the evolution of any monarchy where the monarch has absolute right to do whatever they wish in some arena... as long as what they wish happens to be more or less what a larger body wants them to wish.

        1 reply 2 retweets 71 likes
        Show this thread
      23. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Even M'Baku had died and the events of the movie after that otherwise didn't happen, you know what would have happened, when T'Challa's heir was ready to take up the crown? A messenger would be sent to the Jabari, asking if they happen to have any thoughts on this new monarch.

        2 replies 2 retweets 55 likes
        Show this thread
      24. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        M'Baku had his specific objections but the general objection was that the Jabari viewpoint was being discounted, ignored. Their isolation was their choice but they also understood that choice to be making a statement, and the statement was no longer being heard.

        2 replies 2 retweets 69 likes
        Show this thread
      25. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        And no, none of this is shown on screen. But it's a political story. This aspect of the story is focused on a political system. And this is how politics works. This is how things get done. You don't call a vote that you don't have to before you've canvassed and whipped.

        2 replies 3 retweets 77 likes
        Show this thread
      26. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        And a monarch who walked into the arena on Challenge Day without having first gotten a strong sense of where the tribes stood on the matter wouldn't deserve to rule over them.

        1 reply 1 retweet 63 likes
        Show this thread
      27. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Alexandra Erin Retweeted Vixy is so tired

        He ultimately cannot rule the tribes without the consent of the tribes. And the whole thing is designed this way. One controls the vibranium, one the border, one the economy, and one the water supply. He literally cannot alienate even one of them.https://twitter.com/vixy/status/982292484851056646 …

        Alexandra Erin added,

        Vixy is so tired @vixy
        Replying to @AlexandraErin
        Also the politics were the reason T'Challa HAD to accept Erik's challenge. Some in the council said Erik had no right, but some said he had. T'Challa couldn't deny the challenge and still maintain stable rule, not with some of his council strongly believing he'd abused his power.
        3 replies 4 retweets 86 likes
        Show this thread
      28. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Wakandan society is one where it's easier and safer for any tribe to come for the king than it is for the king to come for any of the tribes. The four lowland tribes each oversee one essential resource or aspect of pan-Wakanda life.

        2 replies 1 retweet 63 likes
        Show this thread
      29. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        We can infer that the Panther Tribe exists separate from any of the other tribes so that none of them wields outsized power, and because that allows them to specialize in the things Wakanda expects of its rulers.

        2 replies 1 retweet 49 likes
        Show this thread
      30. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        Alexandra Erin Retweeted Elsworth Amasa

        And at the end, we see him taking a place in the council. Which is *not* what he wanted (he *wanted* to be left alone, but with confidence the lowlanders weren't going to ruin everything)... but what's right for his people.https://twitter.com/wfrolik/status/982292626136117248 …

        Alexandra Erin added,

        Elsworth Amasa @wfrolik
        Replying to @AlexandraErin
        Precisely! I consider M'Baku's choice to help T'Challah a very shrewd longterm political move on his part for himself and his people.
        3 replies 1 retweet 65 likes
        Show this thread
      31. Alexandra Erin‏ @AlexandraErin 6 Apr 2018

        The politics of Challenge Day are so tense and interesting and rife with symbolism and nuance. I marvel that anyone can think it's *just* ritual combat to get the strongest/best fighter as king.

        3 replies 6 retweets 78 likes
        Show this thread
      32. Show replies

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