The Legendary Dragon Alephwyr, named Alephwyr, BA

not really relevant, our current concepts about this are not the same as theirs (or three decades ago, or even yesterday) you are a transformation, right now, driven by problems you see in the world

And explaining the texture of yogurt comprehensively requires knowledge of quantum mechanics. Who cares. The thing itself is the same regardless of epistemological limitations.

quantum mechanics can't actually explain the texture of yogurt "comprehensively" it's not like qm has solved the problem of qualia other than that, i don't know what you mean

I mean ontologically. The QM components of chemistry are necessary to explain why yogurt has its consistency instead of just being solid like cheese.

practically, weaker theories can do the same job, just depends on your pragmatics i suspect i'm going deeper than cheese

Weaker theories don't even consider it a real question, or at least don't have a basis to consider it one

i'm not sure we're talking about the same thing!

we were talking about whether we could conceive of something, and whether how you are discontent now could even come about before does the world have an objective valuing that is somehow malignant separate from your valuing of it as malignant, or not?