The Legendary Dragon Alephwyr, named Alephwyr, BA

I find it odd that so many socialists seem to put more democracy as their highest value, and yet also complain loudly about how competition is bad, making us selfish & ruthless. Democracy *IS* competition, either for elected office or more directly to get your proposal approved.

Democracy is winner-take-all competition. If an individual loses out in a given market context they can keep trying, they can try elsewhere, or they can try something else. The state monopoly on, well, an ever increasingly laundry list of things precludes this in democracy.

That's populism. Democracy is winning and losing, but then the building of wide ranging consensus to take the country forward. The losers will accept the need to compromise because they lost and the winners will compromise because they want to bring the country with them

That's an idealistic rendition of Democracy

What is democracy if not idealistic? The Chinese Communist Party model is much closer to the usual pattern of domination, indoctrination and oligarchy, which has ruled human societies for thousands of years.

I meant idealistic in the philosopher's sense, that you were describing how a thing should work, not how it does. I'm not a big fan of the CCP either. But generally you use your sternest lectures on the people capable of learning and keep your powder dry for those who can't.

I think we used to have a more consensual democratic system, and we have gradually lost that and become more populist. Because democracy is idealistic if one group stops believing in it, the other side are either forced to follow or they lose effective power even when elected