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some of the rationalists i'm around view our society as profoundly, infuriatingly dysfunctional, made more tragic when many of the solutions are easy, low-hanging fruit. There's a sense of deep rage from seeing the clearly saner way the world could be. but- 1/

289

Aella

@Aella_Girl

Dec 31, 2022

i think i have this with general conversational/social norms. it feels like the way we talk with each other and treat other people is profoundly, infuriatingly dysfunctional, and if we just took some of the low-hanging solutions, things would be so much saner. 2/

202

Aella

@Aella_Girl

Dec 31, 2022

like, really basic stuff that everybody should agree makes sense. Like, "don't try to shame a behavior by pointing out an unrelated behavior" or "be really careful about making claims about other people's motivations unless you have super strong evidence"

291

Aella

@Aella_Girl

or "don't insult people". Like, just... don't? In a sane world (or as the rats would say, "on my home planet", people just... don't insult each other, almost ever. I feels like I'm on an alien planet where everyone just agrees that insults are a valid form of debate.

8:51 PM · Dec 31, 2022

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Replying to

It’s not that they agree insults are valid debate. It’s that their egos are battling for survival. And two battles simultaneously, outward and inward. Insult approach exposes inner disharmony (or is just mimicked behavior).

Replying to

and

Controversial truth- insults only work if they are at least partially true. Any emotional response to the insult exposes inner disharmony of the insulted.

Replying to

Don’t assume irrationality. Assume a different rationale. Most insults hurled publicly aren’t targeted at the person specifically but to establish their relative social status to the audience watching. It’s all performative.

Replying to

Insults seem to happen more often when someone doesn't have an actual counter to a point.

Replying to

It is an unfortunate fact that the lack of face-to-face interaction fosters this incivility and ugliness. I learned from the "flame wars" of USEnet often started by simple misunderstanding. See the works of

@JonHaidt

in his sociological analysis of so-called "social media".

Replying to

This sounds alien to me. Even in my personal relationships with a partner, I don't feel like I could trust a partner that never get a little upset sometimes or never occasionally insulted me when I did something that bothered them.

@ragtagthrone

Dec 31, 2022

Replying to

@Aella_Girl

We won’t fix our deepest societal problems by simply subscribing to a new set of values that describe how we should or should not behave.

Replying to

Norms are only dysfunctional if you take people’s apparent goals at face value. Yes, norms suck at achieving the high-minded goals we pretend to have, but they succeed in achieving the ugly goals we actually have. Only those who fail to see this think there are low-hanging fruit.

Michael Sinclair Sanders

@Mikessanders777

Dec 31, 2022

Replying to

@Aella_Girl

I fear you are now on an alien planet which has gone mad. I thought internet would be the great educator instead it’s become the great destroyer. I see no hope, not even a tunnel. I lived through the best of times. Now gone! Grasp pleasure before it’s too late.

Replying to

Violent communication is objectively useful the same way actual weapons are useful. Social technology is just harder to regulate