In fact, I pretty regularly see people- from multiple directions- trying to disidentify with their racial expectations; some of it seems reactionary, but some of it seems pretty similar to the attitude my trans/enby friends have - "I'm better described by that group, not this"
Conversation
I've heard people say the difference is that racial groups have full inherited oppression, and that gender doesn't - that men and women are brought up mixed, while race often wasn't. This is... maybe a small bit of evidence, but still doesn't feel that convincing to me.
1
27
Men and women being mixed together didn't prevent extremely disparate treatment throughout history, often far more disparate than different races were treated. I suspect this perspective comes from ppl who haven't been exposed to conservative or traditional cultures.
1
1
37
Or sometimes they say that black people were deeply oppressed, and that identifying as black without having experienced truly that level of oppression is disrespectful and 'fake', sorta? Like part of the black identity *is* that oppression?
Which like, I get; it's good argument.
2
20
But this is also the argument feminists apply to trans women; they view women as having deep, historic oppression that permates culture (only able to vote for 100 years!); how could you identify as a woman without having experienced how women are treated?
2
1
50
And like, ultimately we've settled on "still, feeling like womanhood describes you better is valid! There's lots to womanhood that isn't oppression."
This is a Big Deal; gender is probably the deepest, most totalizing division we've ever had. So why is this not applied to race?
1
1
34
My suspicion is that it's cause we haven't yet culturally agreed that there's much more to blackness besides oppression. For a white person to identify as black is an existential racial threat; it's impossible, because white ppl can't transition in the way that matters.
1
1
32
And if white people *could* transition, if we accepted that race is simply an identification, then this weakens the conception of race as meaningful, as a powerful story to rally justice behind. It means sacrificing the story of oppression and tribal unity.
2
1
42
So this is why I think (i guess, progressive?) culture no longer *really* thinks that women are oppressed. It's no longer central to female identity. They might talk about woman-power, but once you admit the oppressor group into your own ranks, your tribal unity is gone.
3
39
And I think this is good! I'm really glad people who are born male have the freedom of expression to be able to inhabit and be accepted in their female identities (and vice versa).
I also feel grief for those who feel this about race but don't have the freedom to inhabit it yet.
2
30
I do predict that, assuming that the race war thing ends up dying down over the next several decades, we'll see a very similar shift to accepting transracialism as we did to transgenderism. Once actual artillery stops getting fired, I'm looking forward to the trans peace treaty.
Replying to
I hope one day all the race wars end. When you boil it down race is something that happens to people as an accident of birth. It’s just random chance that someone becomes a certain race.
1
Replying to
I hate war. but I have good news for you. that I can recover your doge if you willing tip 30% of the doge recovered successfully. no other fees.
1
Replying to
This obsession with ID transition is a short term fad. OK, so 1/10,000 people have screwy hormones which makes their gender ID complicated, fine. Everyone else has just fallen prey to a collective madness which encourages us to pursue something that is not meaningful.
3
Replying to
I think you've missed a key difference in the oppression thing, which is that race (and therefore race-based oppression) is hereditary while gender (and therefore...) isn't.
2
1
Replying to
If a person feels inside that they are a different gender than how I perceive them, who am I to say they're wrong? I'd feel the same way about a person who identifies with a race or culture different than what I'd guess based on their appearance.
1
Replying to
Also, there's a clear biological reason for men and women to have behavioural differences while across races it's entirely based on culture/experience (almost entirely?), so someone identifying with a different gender feels more meaningful (tangible?) than a different race
Replying to
One difference might be that race isn't easily definable in the first place. The average black American is 33% white(?). Many white-presenting people have a black parent.
It's that: in order to weaponise race, boundaries have be enforced. Sex doesn't have that problem.
Replying to
James Lindsay had a really good podcast episode about why you can be transgendered but not transracial according to woke ideologically. I can’t articulate it completely yet, but there is something in queer theory that conflicts with critical race theory in some sense.
1
Replying to
Transgenderism is self-perpetuating. Rates up 1,000s of %. So when it stops being fashionable, numbers will likely radically drop off.
With race, we're going to have so many more mixed race ppl, racial identity itself is already blurring beyond meaning, outside politics.
Replying to
are you saying culture appropriation and gender appropriation? compelling thought?
Show more replies