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I feel like I'm in crazytown when I express distress about taxation - literally people forcibly taking away your property - and ppl act like I'm the crazy one. Sure, you could argue that this forcible theft is worth it, and I'll respect that, but it's still not crazy to be upset.

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Aella

@Aella_Girl

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@sam91860232

How do you know? We didn't have income tax until what... 1913? and America was still creating infrastructure just fine. It's very possible, likely even, that we'd be even more prosperous and happy if we hadn't been taxing this hard since then.

6:19 PM · Apr 24, 2021

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and

We had extensive taxes since founding — the means have varied: direct, exercise, income (civil war, 1913+), ... Infrastructure was paid for by those taxes. The means and amount have varied, that’s all.

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and

Lots of infrastructure *wasn't* paid by taxes! And taxes *for war* is one of the few reasons for taxation I think are justified, though I think war itself is very rarely justified.

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Replying to

and

Possible, likely even, we’d be even more prosperous? The wealthy had lower taxes during the Bush years and our infrastructure didn’t get better. Many European countries have higher taxes and their infrastructure is much better than ours in terms of resilience and efficiency.

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and

Our infrastructure didn't get better? Didn't the internet economy get its footing during that time? Also we spend *more money on healthcare* than European countries do, and we have worse outcomes. This isn't just an issue of "raise taxes = better outcomes"

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Aella

@Aella_Girl

Apr 24, 2021

I'm not completely anti-tax; I think some amount is a necessary evil, but it's a high bar to make that evil necessary; I think different types of tax and a much lower total would be better.

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Alexander InvalidValue Cadeyrn

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and

Income tax is totally optional if VAT is high enough and/or high enough on things that people really pay a lot of money for :-P it might make you feel less threatened by the tax,but it would still exist.

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and

Where does this conjecture come from when the happiest nations on earth are the ones with high taxation but strong social programs? Even if infrastructure could be privatized, what about the enormous cost of care for the elderly/infirm and children who can’t work?

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and

There's more than just physical infrastructure that has made our lives possible. Social Security didn't exist till the 1930s. We may have built the Transcontinental Railroad but life was still shit. It's also possible the USA might have collapsed if we hadn't enacted income tax.