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Conversation

ok I think the thing about genderpeople that *actually* bothers me is that I feel not allowed to use my own gender framework around them. I honestly don't give a shit how they present, how deviant from gender norms they are, whether they wear makeup or a boy cut. (1/6)

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The last few guys I dated would regularly wear women's clothing and I didn't mind at all. I've applied makeup to many of my male friends! Despite how I look, I'm also pretty deviant, and deeply sympathize with the difficulty of failing to perform the 'correct' gender norms. (2/6)

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So to reiterate - any expression you want to have with your own body, clothing, mannerism, vocabulary - I welcome it. But I want to retain ownership over the way gender resonates with me. To me, all that stuff above has very little to do with gender. (3/6)

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To me, expression is independent of gender, and your gender is completely outside of your control; it resides in the eyes of society. Gender *is* an assignment of society. And so when people expect me to view them as a gender I don't view them as, that just does not work.(4/6)

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I can't view them as the gender they want no matter how hard I try. And to be clear, I still use preferred pronouns and try to do all the least upsetting things for genderpeople. I just am bothered by how afraid I feel to express the way I experience gender. (5/6)

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In my ideal world, they would say "Hey, my pronouns are they/them", and then I'd say "Nice to meet you! I process your gender as your birth sex and don't view you as nonbinary personally, but I'm happy to use your pronouns if that makes you more comfortable." (6/6)

5:40 PM · Mar 17, 2020

@celine_dionysus

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what could we do to encourage being viewed as nonbinary, personally? not to start anything! looking for advice, lol

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@celine_dionysus

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@DionysusCeline

I don't know 'how' to view you as nonbinary. I think I've only once actually intuitively processed someone as "neither gender" before, and they were a trans woman on estrogen.

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this implies that you can always tell what birth sex people are. might be better to rephrase as "I'm too uncomfortable with a non-binary model of gender, so I'll insist on forcing you into whatever binary model I believe you conform most closely too"

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If I can't tell, then I process them as 'neither gender', which I assume is closest to nonbinary. If they're a passing trans person, then I process them as closest to their preferred gender, and this doesn't change when I find out their sex.

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Andrew Fallows, now on ko-fi!

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"in my ideal world, I invalidate other people's identity by rejecting it to their face despite paying lip service to it" Weird ideals there.

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No, I'm being honest about myself and the way I view the world, and I try to make accommodations so that I don't hurt others who really want me to view them a certain way. My sense of identity doesn't match up with the way others see me, often, but I'm okay with that.

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Replying to

how do you know what gender to "process" people on, do you have some kind of psychic ability to look at them as a baby and tell if a doctor thought he saw a dick or not

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Just the way they look. I'ts independent of their genitals; if someone reads to me as female then knowing they have a penis won't update my brain.

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Alexandra Erin | alexandraerin@peoplemaking.games

Replying to

Why would you need to tell someone this? What would possess you? What benefit do you derive? Why is it necessary for them to know your framework, in order for you to use it? There's no reason to invalidate someone to their face, except to invalidate them to their face. Garbage.

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I don't actually do it. The reason to do it is honesty. With friends I'm close with, we're incredibly honest - about the way we feel around each other, the way we perceive each other, everything. I really value that, it feels intimate.

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