themselves as “Byzantine” and I’m pretty sure no-one alive before the Early Modern Era (see what I did there) conceived of themselves as living in the Antiquity/Early Mediaeval European world. I do love the serious work that underpins the nomenclature.
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Replying to @stmarnock69 @merovingianist
Okay so my point about periodisation is more that we can’t delineate a change in eras to a year or even a 50 year period. There is gradual change over time and it varies country to country. But the early medieval period flat out did not start in 900.
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Even making a late antique argument, which still undermines the idea of “tribal” IMO, I really don’t think it can apply to Western Europe after 600, if we wanted to be super generous. I think the EM period could start much earlier though.
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But yeah no one thought of themselves as medieval, or ancient, or whatever. But they also didn’t think of themselves as “tribal”. The idea of kingship is rooted in the Iron Age, imo, in Ireland, so we shouldn’t be calling them Earls or Chiefs in the 9th c. They were kings.
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Replying to @AdmiralHip @stmarnock69
I've noticed debates over periodisation combining and recombining in really weird ways lately in the popular realm. Almost like people have been picking up bits and pieces and assembling it into a Franken-timeline for the medieval period.
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Replying to @merovingianist @stmarnock69
Maybe, but a lot of people really just don’t know what medieval means.
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Replying to @AdmiralHip @stmarnock69
Racking my brain to try and remember where this started, but there is a (goofy) interpretation that we don't have "medieval" until we have "feudal" (which is objectively ridiculous for so many reasons, obviously). But that might be at work in the game's timeline design.
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Replying to @merovingianist @stmarnock69
That is probably where they get this from but calling it early medieval means that they heard the phrase but don’t know what it means, because the tooltip says it means leaving the Dark Ages. Like, no.
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I have seen medieval used after the Dark Ages but never early medieval. Plus “feudalism” is such a weird and nebulous concept that many scholars say isn’t actually a thing but it’s not my area.
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Replying to @AdmiralHip @stmarnock69
If for no other reason than we're liable to wind up with students coming in thinking it's a correct timeline/periodisation scheme.
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Yeah, which is why I hope they consider changing it. @PdxInteractive @CrusaderKings please, the early medieval historians are begging you.
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Replying to @AdmiralHip @stmarnock69 and
I was just doing a podcast with a colleague today where I commented how the early Middle Ages is the period that constantly gets glossed over in survey texts (the course is on piracy). A couple of my case studies for the podcast targeted areas where his course text left gaps. :)
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Replying to @merovingianist @stmarnock69 and
Yeah it is frequently ignored. It is very annoying.
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End of conversation
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