Yeah idk how you'd even translate that honestly. "gens of the angles of the saxons?" "gens of the angles and of the saxons?" "gens of the anglo-saxons" is not obvious here.
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Replying to @HalstedMedieval @ChrisRouse1212
looking at this and the Asser text with the double genitive (
@erik_kaars posted it recently), I would go with 'of the Saxons and Angles' for Paul, and vice-versa for Asser. Anyone have access to Charlemagne's capitularies? I'd be curious it he puts 'et' between his titles.2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes -
Looking now in the MGH. Though these are being re-edited right now so we'll have a much better edition (w/ a searchable online interface!) soon
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Replying to @HalstedMedieval @LopezJantzen and
Big Charles does usually have ets or atques between gentes, but I'd have to see the manuscripts (both of the capits and for Paul) to properly compare. in either case a better comparison might be between paul and whoever he's basing his history on? who'd he read?
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Paul was at C's court, fwiw, so he encountered early medieval English there, and possibly at Benevento. Paul's all we've got for that period of Lombard history (he was reading Secundus of Trent, who lived earlier, + Gregory of Tours, Gregory the Great, Isidore, and maybe Bede).
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I'd be interested to see (not saying you should do this, bigger task than a twitter thread!) a comparative look at ways continentals referred to england/the english in the eight century.
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Replying to @HalstedMedieval @LopezJantzen and
It's a weird time because Mercian political structures/Northumbrian knowledge production had come online in a big way but neither of those things would end up unifying 'england' so it's kind of liminal. I wonder what contemporaries thought
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Replying to @HalstedMedieval @LopezJantzen and
Like how did Alcuin self-id? Did other people talk about/label alcuin?
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I'm definitely interested in that, but no idea.
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I'll put it on my scholarly to-do list in position *counts*... ten? eleven? Fvck
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A friend is looking at how Irish are ID’d in texts but several ppl have mentioned that the English dimension is worth exploring.
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Replying to @AdmiralHip @LopezJantzen and
Cool! Yeah, my impression for the English is that it's very patchy & uneven. Would love to see a study with considerations of geography, networks, chronology
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Replying to @HalstedMedieval @AdmiralHip and
even referring to this all as "english" leaves a yucky taste in my mouth -- "lowland british polities"
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