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4th_WaveNow's profile
4thWaveNow
4thWaveNow
4thWaveNow
@4th_WaveNow

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4thWaveNow

@4th_WaveNow

Pediatric transition skeptics. 'Like samizdat for the sane & ideologically uncowed'. Free speech. Science. Head tweeter: Denise aka Marie (Founder)

The Wreck, Planet Earth
4thwavenow.com/about
Joined June 2015

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    1. Leya  🟥 🟪 ⬜️ 🟩‏ @_Leyanelle_ 12 Dec 2017
      Replying to @4th_WaveNow @DrDebraSoh

      It's deeply disingenuous of her to make out that science has established gender is innate when no such thing has happened. Cordelia Fine's work is the best I've come across, & she has challenged the 'quality of the scientific methods, assumptions and interpretations used to >

      2 replies 2 retweets 11 likes
    2. Leya  🟥 🟪 ⬜️ 🟩‏ @_Leyanelle_ 12 Dec 2017
      Replying to @_Leyanelle_ @4th_WaveNow @DrDebraSoh

      >support conclusions that the sexes are inherently suited, or drawn, to different kinds of roles in our society'. She has made a powerful scientific case, saying 'that the size and pattern of these (sex) differences is consistent with the combined and continuous action of many >

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Leya  🟥 🟪 ⬜️ 🟩‏ @_Leyanelle_ 12 Dec 2017
      Replying to @_Leyanelle_ @4th_WaveNow @DrDebraSoh

      >small causal influences is certainly counter to the idea of sex differences being powerfully caused by testosterone'. Below is a link to just this kind of debate where Fine makes it clear how the strongest science is behind gender not being innate (imo): https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-30/october-2017/testosterone-key-sex-differences-human-behaviour …

      1 reply 2 retweets 8 likes
    4. 4thWaveNow‏ @4th_WaveNow 12 Dec 2017
      Replying to @_Leyanelle_ @DrDebraSoh

      It's an interesting debate. What do you make of this critique? Credits Fine with calling out weaknesses in the T debate, but calls her out for ignoring weaknesses in her own position.http://quillette.com/2017/03/21/cordelia-fines-testosterone-rex-a-review/ …

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Leya  🟥 🟪 ⬜️ 🟩‏ @_Leyanelle_ 12 Dec 2017
      Replying to @4th_WaveNow @DrDebraSoh

      I'd be interested in her response. I'm not seeing anything that shows she's wrong at all though.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    9. 4thWaveNow‏ @4th_WaveNow 12 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dzongsar @Nosci_fi @DrDebraSoh

      Yes. And quest for the truth shouldn't be hampered by ideology of any kind.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Leya  🟥 🟪 ⬜️ 🟩‏ @_Leyanelle_ 12 Dec 2017
      Replying to @4th_WaveNow @dzongsar and

      She has some kind of belief system at play there though, in the way she misrepresents the science. Even Fine's detractors acknowledge there's no conclusive scientific position that gender is innate.

      3 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
      4thWaveNow‏ @4th_WaveNow 12 Dec 2017
      Replying to @_Leyanelle_ @dzongsar and

      The science being questioned is whether levels of T (pre- &/or post-natal) has an impact on typical sex/gender norms. There is an ideological position that hormones have nil impact, and that's what Soh (and a lot of replicated research) challenges. It's not about "innateness."

      9:24 AM - 12 Dec 2017
      • 1 Retweet
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      • Sindri Park Ranger isabelle tracy
      3 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. 4thWaveNow‏ @4th_WaveNow 12 Dec 2017
          Replying to @4th_WaveNow @dzongsar and

          One can have a nuanced position that testosterone is powerful and has an effect, without saying T levels are determinative/nurture is irrelevant, OR that population averages say anything about an individual.

          1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
        3. Leya  🟥 🟪 ⬜️ 🟩‏ @_Leyanelle_ 12 Dec 2017
          Replying to @4th_WaveNow @dzongsar and

          But she says that gender is innate, and isn't a construct; this isn't a nuanced position.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. Leya  🟥 🟪 ⬜️ 🟩‏ @_Leyanelle_ 12 Dec 2017
          Replying to @4th_WaveNow @dzongsar and

          Gender being related to hormones is innateness. Also Fine's position is that hormones don't dictate sex differences in a gendered way - this isn't ideological - this is a scientific position/argument that has been widely lauded, & I have to say much more so thn any of Soh's work.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. isabelle tracy‏ @hullfair 12 Dec 2017
          Replying to @4th_WaveNow @dzongsar and

          We have to be able to discuss this sensibly (T in utero) as it is also possibly implicated in autism, possibly in "geriatric" pregnancies

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Leya  🟥 🟪 ⬜️ 🟩‏ @_Leyanelle_ 12 Dec 2017
          Replying to @hullfair @4th_WaveNow and

          It's interesting that there's autism research suggesting that females are under diagnosed & likely have as high an incidence of autism as males, it's just that higher functioning females remain under diagnosed cos of socialisation. I met a specialist working on new diagnostics.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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