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4th_WaveNow's profile
4thWaveNow
4thWaveNow
4thWaveNow
@4th_WaveNow

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4thWaveNow

@4th_WaveNow

Pediatric transition skeptics. 'Like samizdat for the sane & ideologically uncowed'. Free speech. Science. Head tweeter: Denise aka Marie (Founder)

The Wreck, Planet Earth
4thwavenow.com/about
Joined June 2015

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    1. LisaLittman‏ @LisaLittman1 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @LisaLittman1 @jack_turban

      ...criteria desisted. We definitely need more research to establish desistance rates. But the 67.2% are the best data we have currently for kids who are not treated with puberty blockers....

      2 replies 0 retweets 38 likes
    2. LisaLittman‏ @LisaLittman1 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @LisaLittman1 @jack_turban

      Your statement “a large proportion of the kids in those studies didn’t even meet GID criteria” —isn’t a reason to discard the desistance studies because there has been an analysis that separates those who didn’t meet criteria from those who did.

      2 replies 0 retweets 33 likes
    3. Jack Turban MD  🏳️‍🌈 🧠‏Verified account @jack_turban 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @LisaLittman1

      There are multiple reasons to not to use the data in this way: (1) the DSM-IV vs DSM-5 issue I've now raised 3 times, (2) misinterpreting data about children to make conclusions about adolescents, (3) including children who didn't meet even DSM-IV criteria in the studies.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. Jack Turban MD  🏳️‍🌈 🧠‏Verified account @jack_turban 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @jack_turban @LisaLittman1

      The first (the one you continue to ignore) is arguably the most important, and why I listed it first in my thread.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    5. LisaLittman‏ @LisaLittman1 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @jack_turban

      I don’t agree that the reasons you list justify ignoring the desistance research that exists- especially given that there are no desistance studies yet using DSM V to refute or confirm those findings.

      2 replies 1 retweet 55 likes
    6. Jack Turban MD  🏳️‍🌈 🧠‏Verified account @jack_turban 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @LisaLittman1

      I didn't "ignore" the research, Dr. Littman. I analyzed it and pointed out the objective ways in which you are misinterpreting the data You are welcome to not "agree" with my opinions, but you are not welcome to ignore objective facts with the goal of confirming your own biases

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    7. 4thWaveNow‏ @4th_WaveNow 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @jack_turban @LisaLittman1

      4thWaveNow Retweeted  〽️ars  ⚓️

      Dr. Turban, anyone paying attention is aware that there a growing number of post-adolescent desisters. Many have begun speaking publicly. Here is a recent interview conducted, incidentally, by a trans man. Perhaps you might consider your own biases?https://twitter.com/_Mars_F/status/1293971105766572032?s=20 …

      4thWaveNow added,

       〽️ars  ⚓️ @UpperhandMars
      In this episode, a conversation with @chiaracanaan about her experience identifying as trans but NOT medically transitioning. https://youtu.be/rLfTrTRnIRk 
      2 replies 6 retweets 33 likes
    8. PoliJunkie20  🇺🇸‏ @PoliJunkie20 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @4th_WaveNow @jack_turban @LisaLittman1

      Can you provide a study that shows a large number of people who transition ultimately detransition?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. 4thWaveNow‏ @4th_WaveNow 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @PoliJunkie20 @jack_turban @LisaLittman1

      How many detransitioners or desisters would be enough to matter or be worth studying, in your view? Obviously, more study is needed, which is exactly what Dr. Littman plans to do.

      3 replies 0 retweets 21 likes
    10. PoliJunkie20  🇺🇸‏ @PoliJunkie20 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @4th_WaveNow @jack_turban @LisaLittman1

      1/ It's not evidence-based to say, "look at this YouTube video of a detransitioner" and then base major medical policy on such an anecdote. The highest rate I've seen is a 5% detransition rate.

      4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4thWaveNow‏ @4th_WaveNow 17 Aug 2020
      Replying to @PoliJunkie20 @jack_turban @LisaLittman1

      There has been a very large increase in (in particular) girls/young women identifying as trans, and a concomitant rise in detransitioners. This has not been formally studied yet. No one knows how many there are or what their needs are. This is why we need more research.

      2:20 PM - 17 Aug 2020
      • 6 Likes
      • Phildidge Julia Mason MS MD Natural Calamity David Pasko_OCT 光復香港時代革命 〽️ars ⚓️
      0 replies 0 retweets 6 likes

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