I haven't seen anyone in this discussion saying a possible innate trait (I prefer "tendency") isn't subject to the influence (enhancement or suppression) of socialization.
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Replying to @4th_WaveNow @lascapigliata8 and
So if you think that all these qualities are influenced or largely determined by socialization, why do you believe there are some deep-seated, innate tendencies that are not determined by socialization? Why should we believe that there are "default" tendencies here?
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Replying to @smolgardenghost @4th_WaveNow and
The question is rather why you insist human beings are different from every other mammal species on earth in this regard. Especially when all the evidence indicates otherwise. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.
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Replying to @RealYeyoZa @smolgardenghost and
The other question is, "do you have children yourself?" Because then, socialisation is under your control, and guess what?
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Replying to @rthonbwooster @RealYeyoZa and
My daughter grew up in an environment where all the parents gave the boys dolls and the girls trucks. The preschool couldn't have been more supportive of breaking gender boxes. Guess what toys the majority of kids chose? (All us Woke parents were bewildered--at first.)
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Replying to @4th_WaveNow @smolgardenghost and
No differences in gender typical toy preferences between swedish and hungarian children, despite gender neutral swedish preschools
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Replying to @RealYeyoZa @smolgardenghost and
In the lefty community we lived in, toys, books, clothes were "ungendered." My own daughter was offered a variety of things; she rejected dolls/"girly" stuff from the get-go (unlike most other girls at her preschool). Now a lesbian, as it turns out. Zero to do w/socialization.
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Replying to @4th_WaveNow @RealYeyoZa and
Socialisation begins as soon as the baby is born and no child has ever grown up in a family and society that was free of socialisation. We are all heavily influenced by it, regardless of whether parents heavily promote it or not. There is a lot of research about that.
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It always throws me that people are unaware of these things, but then why should they be? Without researching the hell out of it, most people just assume it’s natural. It’s why it’s so pervasive and effective.
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When someone sees things differently from you, that doesn't equal "unaware." It may mean they have another perspective to offer. I don't dismiss Fine & Rippon, but I also don't dismiss the 90+ studies cited by Lonsdorf.https://web.archive.org/web/20171028225840/http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jnr.23862/full …
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Replying to @4th_WaveNow @RealYeyoZa and
Still haven’t read those three articles?
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