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380kmh's profile
Haunted Forrest 🌲
Haunted Forrest 🌲
Haunted Forrest  🌲
@380kmh

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Haunted Forrest  🌲

@380kmh

#TrainTwitter - trains & train stations - passionate opinions on public transit & civic design - transit bureacrat, but all views here are my own

Pioneer Valley
patreon.com/380kmh
Joined March 2011

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    1. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon @380kmh

      And certainly historically commuter rail in London was far less attractive than the Tube in places where both are options (eg Enfield).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      "Commuter rail" in Tokyo is more or less indistinguishable from subways--they employ the same kinds of trains and even offer through service from commuter to subway lines. I talk about "commuter rail" so people know what I mean, but the term I prefer is "suburban rail"

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      Something I've not seen in Europe. We have the RER concept, where commuter trains run through the centre in separate tunnels, but not commuter trains on subway tracks. Not any more anyway. (We used to - the District line once had trains to Southend.)

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      The RER concept is pretty much the same concept

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      It's a bit different because you have much bigger tunnels, longer platforms and fewer and further between stations. And less frequent trains (RER C in Paris is particularly bad for that).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      Differences in tunnel dimensions or platform length can easily exist *within* a subway network (Tokyo's has 3 different gauges and at least 3 different power sources!). Wider station spacing is the same from rider's perspective as skip-stop services on more dense lines...

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh @uncriticalsimon

      ...and low frequency is just a deficiency--nobody benefits from that. Differences between commuter rail and subways are generally arbitrary as they are both trying to accomplish the same goal: moving large numbers of people in constrained spaces. Same goal = convergent evolution

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      I think there's a continuum though. The further I'm going, the more I want a seat, a toilet, a table, a power socket, a drinks trolley etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      Sure--and why shouldn't a train with all those features (assuming compatible infrastructure!) run through a subway tunnel?pic.twitter.com/a6nFTnOUwX

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      In theory, nothing. In practice they're usually too different to run without an unacceptable capacity loss.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      Don't tell Tokyo Metro, they'll hate to hear they've caused unacceptable capacity loss!

      10:36 AM - 13 Dec 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @380kmh

          Attempting to run typical 160 km/h, low acceleration, two-sets-of-doors UK commuter MUs in the core of the London Underground *would* cause unacceptable capacity loss! (Even if you do it on the subsurface lines where they'd fit.)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @uncriticalsimon

          And why do they need to be limited to two sets of doors? Or have low acceleration? Even if you DON'T interoperate with the Tube, what advantages do these design choices have for passengers?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @380kmh

          More space for seats and a less jolty ride. Plus higher speed is more important than high acceleration on longer distance trains

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @uncriticalsimon

          Train suspension (re: jolting) has little relation to the number or doors or the rate of acceleration--as for seats, you get better results with high frequency than with fewer doors. High acceleration is important at any distance, especially if you want high overall speed!

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @380kmh

          You get more seats per metre of train length, and a less draughty carriage, with fewer doors.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @uncriticalsimon

          True enough. Are these worth handicapping the entire line for, though? They seem appropriate as a premium service--making up a certain portion of trains per hour (as with Keikyu's 2100 series) or carriages per train (as with JR East's Green Cars), not for every car of every trainpic.twitter.com/AkXRaqRrUm

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation

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